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  1. #11
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Im pretty sure I'm one of the few people I know my age that has a small pox vaccination.

    The military pretty much shoots you up full of everything you can possibly stick in a needle. I'm not dead or cancerous yet.
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  2. #12
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Furthermore, there are more and more parent, and even physician groups, speaking out against vaccines; and some evidence to show that autism spectrum disorders are exascerbated by some vaccines..
    You chose your words carefully. But reading between the lines, the association with autism and vaccines is just not a very credible idea. It came from a doctor who reasoned that kids get vaccines around the same time autism "appears". Correlation is not causation, and the same doctor then tried to convince everyone that we could cure autism through chelation (some kids got pretty messed up from chelation).

    The point is, there isnt a lot of evidence that vaccines cause autism. With that said though, vaccines are not a magic bullet. You should be careful about squalene, which is an adjuvant not used since the gulf war. There is a debate about its safety. Apparently its been added back in for the swine flu vaccine. who knows...

  3. #13
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Im pretty sure I'm one of the few people I know my age that has a small pox vaccination.
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  4. #14
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    You chose your words carefully. But reading between the lines, the association with autism and vaccines is just not a very credible idea. It came from a doctor who reasoned that kids get vaccines around the same time autism "appears". Correlation is not causation, and the same doctor then tried to convince everyone that we could cure autism through chelation (some kids got pretty messed up from chelation).

    The point is, there isnt a lot of evidence that vaccines cause autism. With that said though, vaccines are not a magic bullet. You should be careful about squalene, which is an adjuvant not used since the gulf war. There is a debate about its safety. Apparently its been added back in for the swine flu vaccine. who knows...
    Yep, I guess you are right. This was just published: British Journal Retracts Paper Linking Autism and Vaccines - NYTimes.com

    And this is the latest from the CDC:


    Q: Do vaccines cause autism spectrum disorders (ASDs)?

    A: Many studies that have looked at whether there is a relationship between vaccines and autism spectrum disorders (ASDs). To date, the studies continue to show that vaccines are not associated with ASDs.
    However, CDC knows that some parents and others still have concerns. To address these concerns, CDC is part of the Inter-Agency Autism Coordinating Committee (IACC), which is working with the National Vaccine Advisory Committee (NVAC) on this issue. The job of the NVAC is to advise and make recommendations regarding the National Vaccine Program. Communication between the IACC and NVAC will allow each group to share skills and knowledge, improve coordination, and promote better use of research resources on vaccine topics.
    For more information about vaccines and ASDs, see:



    Still, always good to consider all your options.

    As a side note, the CDC is calling the increased rate of ASD (autism spectrum disorders) "an urgent public health concern." My personal theory is that it is related to amount ultrasonography exposure in utero........
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    It's a good idea to investigate on a vaccine by vaccine basis, imo, if you have the time and inclination to do so. Vaccines have done a lot of good, but that doesn't mean that every vaccine and time frame in which they are recommended are necessarily the best for each person. I like to make informed choices when it comes to my most precious children.
    That does sound like a good way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    The point is, there isnt a lot of evidence that vaccines cause autism.
    From what I've read, it seems that there just haven't been a lot of studies done on key questions related to vaccines. (9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims)

    I have also read that it's generally unpredictable how a child will react to a vaccine, not only because of the lack of tests, but also because it can depend on the child's particular genetic predisposition and what other toxins and stresses they are exposed to later in life after the vaccine has been injected. If for example a child has a certain genetic condition or disorder, in combination with a certain vaccine, this can be lethal. One child's/person's tolerance level can be higher than another's. It seems to depend on when your immune system reaches critical mass and it's all too much and you get a disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Yep, I guess you are right. This was just published: British Journal Retracts Paper Linking Autism and Vaccines - NYTimes.com
    To be honest, I trust hardly any news or information coming out of mainstream media, such as NY Times. And after reading about Jane Burgermeister's experiences with The Lancet, it seems corruption in the medical industry includes such journals also.
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  6. #16
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    From what I've read, it seems that there just haven't been a lot of studies done on key questions related to vaccines. (9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate and Their Claims)
    I think the issue is that the main assumptions that a study would ride on just dont hold up. Autism naturally comes on from 0 to 2. The same time as vaccines. Its correlation, not causation.

    To be honest, I trust hardly any news or information coming out of mainstream media, such as NY Times. And after reading about Jane Burgermeister's experiences with The Lancet, it seems corruption in the medical industry includes such journals also.
    so you're admitting to being a conspiracy theorist. How else are we going to falsify your beliefs if you wont trust any information?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGA
    As a side note, the CDC is calling the increased rate of ASD (autism spectrum disorders) "an urgent public health concern." My personal theory is that it is related to amount ultrasonography exposure in utero........
    Ive done research for school surveying literature. I think its largely due to the increase in education and marking out like minded people for marriage. Let me explain. When two parents of highly systematizing nature mate, their child is of much higher likely hood to have a ASD. A lot of the hot spots for autism is around areas where really smart people are likely to be married.

    Some ASDs like Aspergers are even now being called more of a "range" that we all fall on, rather than a disability...theres a lot more systematizing people making kids who fall farther on the systematizing scale. Is Asperger

  7. #17
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I think the issue is that the main assumptions that a study would ride on just dont hold up. Autism naturally comes on from 0 to 2. The same time as vaccines. Its correlation, not causation.
    Research on twins also holds that there are more instances in ASD in identical rather than paternal twins, which indicates a genetic, or at least partly genetic cause.

    Here is a study on chromosome 17, it seems to be a mutation on this specific chromosome that many of the people on the AS have in common.

    Advances in autism genetics: on the threshold of a new neurobiology
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    If this article has any credibility to it then makes me wonder.

    Conclusions
    This top secret meeting was held to discuss a study done by Dr. Thomas Verstraeten and his co-workers using Vaccine Safety Datalink data as a project collaboration between the CDCís National Immunization Program (NIP) and four HMOs. The study examined the records of 110,000 children. Within the limits of the data, they did a very through study and found the following:

    1. Exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines at one month was associated significantly with the misery and unhappiness disorder that was dose related. That is, the higher the childís exposure to thimerosal the higher the incidence of the disorder. This disorder is characterized by a baby that cries uncontrollably and is fretful more so than that see in normal babies.
    2. Found a nearly significant increased risk of ADD with 12.5ug exposure at one month.
    3. With exposure at 3 months, they found an increasing risk of neurodevelopmental disorders with increasing exposure to thimerosal. This was statistically significant. This included speech disorders.

    No one disagreed that these findings were significant and troubling. Attempts by Congressman Weldon to force the CDC to release the data to an independent researcher, Dr. Mark Geier, a researcher with impeccable credentials and widely published in peer-reviewed journals, have failed repeatedly

    There is no question that thimerosal plays a major role, but there are other factors that are also critical, including aluminum, fluoroaluminum complexes, and chronic immune activation of brain microglia. One property of both aluminum and mercury is microglial activation. With chronic microglial activation large concentrations of excitotoxins are released as well as neurotoxic cytokines. These have been shown to destroy synaptic connections, dendrites and cause abnormal pathway development in the developing brain as well as adult brain.

    In essence, too many vaccines are being given to children during the brainís most rapid growth period. Known toxic metals are beings used in the vaccines that interfere with brain metabolism, antioxidant enzymes, damage DNA and DNA repair enzymes and trigger excitotoxicity.
    Besides there is always mycoplasma in vaccines for chronic diseases, whether any truth to it who knows. The vaccines themselves are fine, its whats in them that is a worry. I'd be reluctant to take vaccines voluntarily with just for anything just in case some of this is true. They do their job that's certain yet I question the logic behind some of the inclusions. Since money is a factor then I wouldn't put it past people to cut corners and use harmful substances as a possibility for the sake of cost reduction and such. Reactions mightn't happen when your young, but how would you know that the health problems you start getting when your old aren't related, you'd assume its an accumulation of everything else rather than the source that started the snowball.

  9. #19
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    You know something else I wonder about is, do you think that there were always more people on the AS, but now that we have a name and characteristics that comprise it, we notice it more?

    As in, people just used to shrug off others "odd" behavior, but if they had been children in this era they would have been diagnosed with ASD? Just a thought...
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  10. #20
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I think the issue is that the main assumptions that a study would ride on just dont hold up. Autism naturally comes on from 0 to 2. The same time as vaccines. Its correlation, not causation.



    so you're admitting to being a conspiracy theorist. How else are we going to falsify your beliefs if you wont trust any information?



    Ive done research for school surveying literature. I think its largely due to the increase in education and marking out like minded people for marriage. Let me explain. When two parents of highly systematizing nature mate, their child is of much higher likely hood to have a ASD. A lot of the hot spots for autism is around areas where really smart people are likely to be married.

    Some ASDs like Aspergers are even now being called more of a "range" that we all fall on, rather than a disability...theres a lot more systematizing people making kids who fall farther on the systematizing scale. Is Asperger
    So, you're saying smarter people are mating, and producing ASDs? Interesting proposition. Must be what happens when NTs mate. Who knew. I still think my U/S theory is better.



    Quote Originally Posted by Lux View Post
    Research on twins also holds that there are more instances in ASD in identical rather than paternal twins, which indicates a genetic, or at least partly genetic cause.

    Here is a study on chromosome 17, it seems to be a mutation on this specific chromosome that many of the people on the AS have in common.

    Advances in autism genetics: on the threshold of a new neurobiology
    Women carrying twins get a ton of ultrasounds. A TON! And they start screening most women now in the first trimester, around 10 weeks if they are measuring larger than they should be. If there are twins, they do an u/s at every visit, at least, and that is a lot, because women carrying twins see the practitioner more frequently than women with a single baby.

    Ultrasound guidelines are being established, but since it's regular and frequent use is relatively new, we really do not know what effects it can have. This from Wikipedia:

    There are several studies that indicate the harmful side effects on animal fetuses associated with the use of sonography on pregnant mammals. A Yale study in 2006 suggested exposure to ultrasound affects fetal brain development in mice. A typical fetal scan, including evaluation for fetal malformations, typically takes 10Ė30 minutes.[10] The study showed that rodent brain cells failed to migrate to their proper positions and remained scattered in incorrect parts of the brain. This misplacement of brain cells during their development is linked to disorders ranging from "mental retardation and childhood epilepsy to developmental dyslexia, autism spectrum disorders and schizophrenia." However, this effect was only detectable after 30 minutes of continuous scanning. No link has yet been made between the test results on animals such as mice and the possible effects on humans. Although the possibility exists that biological effects on humans may be identified in the future, currently most doctors feel that based on available information the benefits to patients outweigh the risks.

    And 30 min is really nothing when they are having fun looking at twins in office, and searching for twin gender, etc.
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