User Tag List

First 3111213

Results 121 to 130 of 130

Thread: Obesity myth

  1. #121

    Default

    Those are fair enough points. I think the amount of control a person has over their body composition is large but the extent that different people need to go to differs. The individual is free to make the decision to change themselves to the degree they want. I think people have a responsibility to maintain their health to the best of their abilities but all lean people are not healthy and all overweight people are not unhealthy.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    There's this idea we've all gotten that we can change our bodies completely by an effort of our will -- not only weight, but illness, too -- anything less than "ideal" -- like, if you get sick, it's because somehow you deserve it, and if only you ate better, thought more positive thoughts, whatever whatever, you would not have gotten sick in the first place, and you could cure the illness you have. While I do like the idea that many things are in our control, sometimes I think it's gotten out of hand. It seems true to me that there are whippets and there are St. Bernards, and that should be ok. The self-righteousness over weight and health scares me a little, i.e., I am thin and therefore I am paying for your (considered inevitable) health problems and you owe it to society to slim down, and more importantly, we all know you could if you would, but you won't, you fat fuck. What if it turns out it is the equivalent of telling someone with brain damage to just try harder in school. Everybody else can make As if they study, why can't you -- because you're lazy and not concentrating. Pointless and cruel, and since we don't really know why any given fat person is fat, maybe best to withhold judgment and resentment or feeling of begrudging. /end sermon

  3. #123
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    I'm in the mood for arguing and ranting about fat again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    What if it turns out it is the equivalent of telling someone with brain damage to just try harder in school. Everybody else can make As if they study, why can't you -- because you're lazy and not concentrating.
    Or telling someone that is resistant to anesthesia to "stop being such a crybaby!".

    I find the presumptousness of people surprising because of course if that's your experience then everyone else must experience things in exactly the same way!

    With the heritablity of weight in your average western population being around 70% that means that if you're of normal size and you see a very fat person walking down the street, that most (70%) of the difference between you and them is genetic. Knowing that there is a natural genetic variation in body size, why do we apply a one size fits all approach to health? Modest weight loss (10lbs) is very good for your health and entirely achievable for most of the population, we should be realistic about the amounts of weight loss we can expect in a genetically varied population. What use are BMI charts? They are damaging to self esteem especially for girls, from a guys perspective you might as well have an "ideal penis size" chart up on the wall for impressionable young kids to see.

    To show the arbitrary nature of BMI consider that the "obesity epidemic" could be reversed in a few months by targeting the millions of people sitting just above the arbitrary obesity line and getting them to lose a few pounds to cross that line. So all of a sudden the obesity "rate" has dropped dramatically without anyone losing more than a 10 pounds. There would still be just as many fat people and just as many health problems, but statistically it would look just beautiful as the "epidemic" would be "cured".

    I have no doubt that in most populations around the world we are getting bigger, the whole distribution is shifting across, but the average changes in weight are modest (7-20lb) the public and doctors expect too much of fat people, losing (10lbs) is a realistic aim that would dramatically reduce health risks across the board. The obesity epidemic would be solved by turning very fat people into slightly less fat people but for some reason we insist that they turn into slim people, which is statistically very improbable (in other words idealistic nonsense).
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  4. #124
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INTx
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Knowing that there is a natural genetic variation in body size, why do we apply a one size fits all approach to health? Modest weight loss (10lbs) is very good for your health and entirely achievable for most of the population, we should be realistic about the amounts of weight loss we can expect in a genetically varied population. What use are BMI charts? They are damaging to self esteem especially for girls, from a guys perspective you might as well have an "ideal penis size" chart up on the wall for impressionable young kids to see.
    I cannot agree that genetic variation is enough to excuse the huge number of.. huge.. people in first world nations at the moment. Sure there's some variation, some people have to try harder than others, but very very very few people are naturally obese and totally helpless.

    Penis size is not something you can do anything about (Unless you buy into the spam that there are creams and pills that will help). Obesity is a decision based on both activity level and eating habits. Energy in, energy out. You can measure every calorie if you really want. All the tools are out there. Yet some people continue to shove cakes into their mouths while they watch TV and whine about being called fat.

    Self-image issues? No - whining. Passive inactivity. Sitting and whining and complaining and ever so sensitive. The cure? Action. Do something about it. Obesity is discriminated against because it's disgusting. It leeches healthcare dollars. It squishes against people in airplanes. Accept it. Improve it.

  5. #125
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    People should just stop eating.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #126
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I'm in the mood for arguing and ranting about fat again.



    Or telling someone that is resistant to anesthesia to "stop being such a crybaby!".

    I find the presumptousness of people surprising because of course if that's your experience then everyone else must experience things in exactly the same way!

    With the heritablity of weight in your average western population being around 70% that means that if you're of normal size and you see a very fat person walking down the street, that most (70%) of the difference between you and them is genetic. Knowing that there is a natural genetic variation in body size, why do we apply a one size fits all approach to health? Modest weight loss (10lbs) is very good for your health and entirely achievable for most of the population, we should be realistic about the amounts of weight loss we can expect in a genetically varied population. What use are BMI charts? They are damaging to self esteem especially for girls, from a guys perspective you might as well have an "ideal penis size" chart up on the wall for impressionable young kids to see.

    To show the arbitrary nature of BMI consider that the "obesity epidemic" could be reversed in a few months by targeting the millions of people sitting just above the arbitrary obesity line and getting them to lose a few pounds to cross that line. So all of a sudden the obesity "rate" has dropped dramatically without anyone losing more than a 10 pounds. There would still be just as many fat people and just as many health problems, but statistically it would look just beautiful as the "epidemic" would be "cured".

    I have no doubt that in most populations around the world we are getting bigger, the whole distribution is shifting across, but the average changes in weight are modest (7-20lb) the public and doctors expect too much of fat people, losing (10lbs) is a realistic aim that would dramatically reduce health risks across the board. The obesity epidemic would be solved by turning very fat people into slightly less fat people but for some reason we insist that they turn into slim people, which is statistically very improbable (in other words idealistic nonsense).
    A large part of the problem is heredity, but I think a bigger part of the problem is inactivity. I put on weight easily if I don't do anything but I put forth the effort to keep it in check and stay healthy/fit.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #127
    Your time is gonna come. Oom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    IsfP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    A large part of the problem is heredity, but I think a bigger part of the problem is inactivity. I put on weight easily if I don't do anything but I put forth the effort to keep it in check and stay healthy/fit.
    +1

    I agree with you that it is partly hereditary. I've been living a sedentary lifestyle for the first 18 years of my life. I just now got it into my head that I am unhealthy and need to work out. My weight is 121 pounds and I never deviate from that unless I just ate or just relieved myself. And last year I just started registering on the body fat tests. (the metallic things that you hold and it tells you how fat you are) I just hit 4%, and before that I could only get an error report.

    Other than that, my eating habits are horrible. I love twinkies and any fast food. I have been interested in learning a healthy way to gain weight and necessary body fat. I just haven't ever been able to gain weight and I know I'd feel better if I had a good extra 10 pounds.

    I don't know where I'm going with this... I guess I'm making an example of the other side of obesity.

  8. #128
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    I cannot agree that genetic variation is enough to excuse the huge number of.. huge.. people in first world nations at the moment. Sure there's some variation, some people have to try harder than others, but very very very few people are naturally obese and totally helpless.
    That is an assumption that isn't supported by science, the vast majority of people who are inclined to be big stay big, twins almost always have the same body size, even if they were raised apart. Children almost always share the same body sizes as their birth parents even if they were adopted and never knew their birth parents.

    I suppose it depends how you define "harder" to me asking obese people to maintain a "normal" weight is much harder than pretty much anything we ask of any citizens, the fact that almost all of them struggle and fail throughout their lives should be telling us something. If millions of people tried and failed to change their height through sheer willpower, it would be sensible of us to assume it can't be done. Very obese people that have gastric bypasses lose a lot of weight but usually they still remain in the obese range, these people reach a point where they are maintaining an obese body on just 700 calories a day. We have to accept that individuals have physiological and psychological limits, to assume otherwise is just ideology.

    Penis size is not something you can do anything about (Unless you buy into the spam that there are creams and pills that will help).
    Actually statistically there would probably be very little difference between the amount of people that have changed their penis size and the amount of people that have lost a very large amount of weight in the long term. In both cases, it almost never happens.

    Obesity is a decision based on both activity level and eating habits. Energy in, energy out. You can measure every calorie if you really want. All the tools are out there. Yet some people continue to shove cakes into their mouths while they watch TV and whine about being called fat.
    Indeed energy in, energy out, however it is just ideology that leads us to believe that we have conscious control over our intake and expenditure in the long term. Eating, just like breathing is too important to leave up to the vagaries of the conscious mind, they are both powerful and primitive biological drives that always win out in the long term. Weight loss, just like holding your breath is entirely possible in the short term but no amount of willpower is going to allow you to hold your breath in the long term, just as our body and mind screams for air and forces us to inhale after holding our breath, so too does our mind and body scream for food and force us to eat or rest after restricting our calories.

    Even if it was conscious, most calorie counts on labels are out by around 10%, being out by 10% is more than enough for someone predisposed to obesity to put on significant weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oom View Post
    +1
    I agree with you that it is partly hereditary. I've been living a sedentary lifestyle for the first 18 years of my life. I just now got it into my head that I am unhealthy and need to work out. My weight is 121 pounds and I never deviate from that unless I just ate or just relieved myself. And last year I just started registering on the body fat tests. (the metallic things that you hold and it tells you how fat you are) I just hit 4%, and before that I could only get an error report.

    Other than that, my eating habits are horrible. I love twinkies and any fast food. I have been interested in learning a healthy way to gain weight and necessary body fat. I just haven't ever been able to gain weight and I know I'd feel better if I had a good extra 10 pounds.

    I don't know where I'm going with this... I guess I'm making an example of the other side of obesity.
    What you are describing falls in line with "set point theory", the theory that our body weights almost always remain very stable over time, our metabolism fights to maintain a certain body weight with accuracy that is greater than conscious control, it is thought that in the long term we only have conscious control of our body weight within a range of 10-20lbs.

    Is obesity due to a heritable difference in 'set point' for adiposity?
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  9. #129
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Even in weight loss, the Heisenberg Principle still applies.

    Someone could be trying their damndest, but if they're a fat fuck, they're still a fat fuck.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #130
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    217

    Default

    My personal principal: if I don't eat it, it can't make me fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    Fiver is correct, it is freeing to not have to impress someone, to be accepted for who you really are.

Similar Threads

  1. The ESFP "stupid" myth.
    By Mort Belfry in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 846
    Last Post: 10-12-2013, 10:47 PM
  2. Clearing Up The J/P Myth
    By "?" in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 10:30 AM
  3. Lack of breakfast and obesity?
    By The Ü™ in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-11-2007, 11:06 PM
  4. N - myths
    By developer in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-25-2007, 05:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO