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Thread: Obesity myth

  1. #91
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Also: You can't really change your skin color, but you can change obesity with proper dieting and exercise.
    Did you even read about the original study in that article? Without starvation obesity is a genetic enivitability for much of the population.

    Show me one study that proves that a statistically significant number of people can go from obese to normal weight and maintain that for greater than 5 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Did you even read about the original study in that article? Without starvation obesity is a genetic enivitability for much of the population.

    Show me one study that proves that a statistically significant number of people can go from obese to normal weight and maintain that for greater than 5 years.
    A specific calorie diet is ill-defined. What exactly did the diet entail? Certain food choices in a diet vary tremendously in their weight-loss effect. Eating nothing but ground hamburger as opposed to a Mediterranean diet of the same calorie count will surely make you fatter. Besides the questionable methodology, a study with 50 respondents is not quite significant.

    For example, this study appears to outline the differences in diets and their BMI losses. Elsevier: Article Locator
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Check the reliability of your sources. People write lots of things with agendas. No clues what her agenda is, but she is distorting stuff, and saying not much.
    Don't assume that I blindly accept her opinion, but the results of the original study are plain to see. You should be equally (if not more concious) of the massive agenda and funding pumped into keeping fat as "evil".

    A quick Google search gives a few rebuttals of her statements.
    Please present them if you have the time.

    And also shows she's a food writer and marketing consultant who writes newspaper stories and for The Christian Science Monitor. In terms of her expertise, she has a bachelor of nursing science. I'm guessing there are in the range of 1000s of top level journal articles written by everything from doctors to professors in the field that say otherwise. I normally don't go on expert opinion only, but this seems senseless enough that it reminds me of the smoking companies saying cigarettes don't cause cancer.
    Can you not come to your own conclusion as to the study findings she has presented? Indeed it does not fit with our intuitive ingrained beliefs but that is exactly why it needs more attention, we dismiss it off hand because it doesn't fit with our current beliefs.

    The title of her article also suggests it is not aimed at improving things for the obese, but more to do with okaying junk food.
    "Junk food" science refers to the nature of a lot of the "scientific" studies she dissects, this particular study on the other hand is very robust and unlikely to be repeated (as it's essentially torture) but that is what makes it so powerful. You can go on for hours about statistical correlations but when you put real people in controlled conditions and make them lose that much weight, the results are compelling and as close to definitive as you're probably ever gunna get.

    So far you have only presented Ad Hominem against her so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    A specific calorie diet is ill-defined. What exactly did the diet entail? Certain food choices in a diet vary tremendously in their weight-loss effect. Eating nothing but ground hamburger as opposed to a Mediterranean diet of the same calorie count will surely make you fatter.
    Well show me the study where obese people on the mediterranian diet lost down to "normal" weight and stayed there for greater than 5 years. If you can't then you're just speculating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    A specific calorie diet is ill-defined. What exactly did the diet entail? Certain food choices in a diet vary tremendously in their weight-loss effect. Eating nothing but ground hamburger as opposed to a Mediterranean diet of the same calorie count will surely make you fatter. Besides the questionable methodology, a study with 50 respondents is not quite significant.
    It's probably as close to true data you're going to get, without torturing people further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Well show me the study where obese people on the mediterranian diet lost down to "normal" weight and stayed there for greater than 5 years. If you can't then you're just speculating.
    A randomized controlled trial of a moderate-fat, low-energy diet compared with a low fat, low-energy diet for weight loss in overweight adults

    RESULTS: After 18 months, 31/50 subjects in the moderate-fat group, and 30/51 in the low fat group were available for measurements. In the moderate-fat group, there were mean decreases in body weight of 4.1 kg, body mass index of 1.6 kg/m2, and waist circumference of 6.9 cm, compared to increases in the low-fat group of 2.9 kg, 1.4 kg/m2 and 2.6 cm, respectively; P0.001 between the groups. The difference in weight change between the groups was 7.0 kg. (95% CI 5.3, 8.7). Only 20% (10/51) of those in the low-fat group were actively participating in the weight loss program after 18 months compared to 54% (27/50) in the moderate-fat group, (P<0.002). The moderate-fat diet group was continued for an additional year. The mean weight loss after 30 months compared to baseline was 3.5 kg (n=19, P=0.03).
    CONCLUSIONS: A moderate-fat, Mediterranean-style diet, controlled in energy, offers an alternative to a low-fat diet with superior long-term participation and adherence, with consequent improvements in weight loss.
    Sure, this was only over a span of 18 months, but that's all I could find so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    It's probably as close to true data you're going to get, without torturing people further.
    Well, there's a measurement of significance in statistics called a P value, and without knowing that (I couldn't find the actual study from your article), the significance of the results are questionable.
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/he...ewanted=2&_r=1

    This article shows similar results in reverse, where it is pretty much impossible for a normal weight person to become and stay obese. Also highlights the impact and power of metabolism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    Sure, this was only over a span of 18 months, but that's all I could find so far.

    Haha the average weight loss after 30 months was a mere 3.5Kgs, an obese person is still very likely to be obese after that tiny loss. A reduction of just 3.5kgs is not going to result in significant health benefits anyway.
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    Okay, I can understand that these obese people have an urge to eat and that forcing them into a diet that restricts them to a narrow caloric intake diet will cause them mental and seemingly physiological distress, but then why are Americans at large more obese than other populations? I'm thinking that low-energy diets are consumed more often in other countries by their obese people, and that they fulfill their needs to eat in an equal way, just with other diets. The other option is that America simply breeds fatties, which would have to do with societal factors.

    This is intriguing. It's hard to conceptualize that obese people require a BMI level to maintain; instead I think their bodies are just used to (from genetics or what have you) requiring a certain level of food to be going into their bodies in some constant rate. This would account for the overall discrepancies in American BMIs compared to others, since their diets are more low-energy than Americans'.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Haha the average weight loss after 30 months was a mere 3.5Kgs, an obese person is still very likely to be obese after that tiny loss. A reduction of just 3.5kgs is not going to result in significant health benefits anyway.
    Yes well, that was just to show you the significance of differing diets. Obese people wouldn't have to "torture" themselves as much to hit a specific weight goal, as weight loss is not a simply measure of caloric restrictions. 90% difference between diets is not something to take lightly.

    Also, this discussion has gotten me thinking: how big a part of the obesity-health consequences is related to diet? I'm sure there may be moderately obese people on a healthy diet (a weight average that their bodies are attuned to) that do not suffer as many health consequences as similarly obese people eating unhealthily. This is conjecture, but something to investigate for sure. For example, you may be able to be obese eating a diet that does not correlate so highly to diseases like heart disease, since diet is very much a factor in such diseases.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
    Ti
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