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  1. #2531
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    ^ Or perhaps you simply haven't worked out the reasoning to HAVE self control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Why does it not matter what you eat?

    My first answer would be, "Life is short and you shouldn't waste it eating food you don't like." And that's precisely it. I'm sick of chicken, I can't stand beans, and am totally traumatized by fish (don't ask). Forcing more down my throat would make me lose my will to live.

    It sounds stupid, but it's true. Knowing that I will have to eat things I hate each time I have to eat will make me not want to eat... and then I'll eat less and less... and dread eating. Eating becomes punishment for the body. But that's exactly what it should be, shouldn't it?

    Eating should be a chore, an exercise of math, a test of tolerance, suffering. And you do this at least three times a day. Is it any wonder that I skipped meals, ate less and less, preferred to go hungry?
    I'll ask you something my coach asked the group: Why do you feel like eating healthy food is punishment? Where does the idea that it SHOULD be a chore come from?

    Why does it matter that I eat healthy? Because I am fat, and because of this, people look down on me if I do not eat a "healthy," anorexic diet. I am a disgusting being who does not deserve enjoyment. I do not deserve to live, and eating is necessary for life, so therefore I do not deserve to eat.
    These are more reasons why it doesn't matter if you eat healthy. This isn't a judgement, I'm just pointing it out.

    Reasons for eating healthy might include, as a personal example:

    I want to learn how to mountain climb.
    I want to seek out obstacle courses in the US so I can run them and push myself.
    I am unable to work on developing a sense of personal style, because all the clothes I really like don't fit me.

    And severe calorie restriction is the only way to keep from being fat. I should be starving as my ancestors did, because those were the only conditions they were thin in. As soon as they moved to America they ballooned up, even when they were still relatively poor. I can't leave the country until I am stick thin, otherwise I am a bad representative of the country. It doesn't matter if I'm intelligent or sensitive, I'm fat so it doesn't matter.
    Sad truth is that in America, the poor are more likely to be obese, because unhealthy foods are cheaper than healthy ones. You can largely thank corn subsidies for that.

    I DID NOT HAVE these thoughts before. It's my deprived brain thinking them. Gaining an inch on my waist would not cause me to have a total personal crisis. I really didn't care, I would have just gone up a notch on my belt and not bat an eye. Because, before I was "healthy," I rarely got sick and was happy. I couldn't keep up in gym, but at least I had my sanity.
    When you are ready, please do go see a counselor. A good one WILL listen to you, and oftentimes schools offer the service for free. Ultimately, it can't be worse than the pain you are putting yourself through right now.

  2. #2532
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    ^ Or perhaps you simply haven't worked out the reasoning to HAVE self control.

    I'll ask you something my coach asked the group: Why do you feel like eating healthy food is punishment? Where does the idea that it SHOULD be a chore come from?
    Because I already eat what I like. If I didn't eat what I liked, I wouldn't be eating it. You see, I am already eating to the best of my ability. Eating any differently, better or worse, would be punishment. It's as much punishment to eat cupcakes all the time as it is to eat cauliflower. My brain has no indication of "health" with food. I am a very simple-minded person. What it doesn't like it doesn't like.



    These are more reasons why it doesn't matter if you eat healthy. This isn't a judgement, I'm just pointing it out.

    Reasons for eating healthy might include, as a personal example:

    I want to learn how to mountain climb.
    I want to seek out obstacle courses in the US so I can run them and push myself.
    I am unable to work on developing a sense of personal style, because all the clothes I really like don't fit me.
    The last one is dangerous. I might want darker skin for the fashions I like, but that would require tanning which isn't good for me. It might also require plastic surgery and the like. My personal sense of style may require me to be taller, but nothing I do will get me that, at least nothing good for me.

    I don't want to learn how to mountain climb (I hate heights) and I hate obstacle courses. So really, what do I have to eat healthy for? An uphill battle against genetic diseases, a fight for decent medical care in the future, no concrete goal in mind. If I ever get the diseases, or am refused health care, no matter what, I will have failed.




    When you are ready, please do go see a counselor. A good one WILL listen to you, and oftentimes schools offer the service for free. Ultimately, it can't be worse than the pain you are putting yourself through right now.
    That's what I thought before I started. Oh, how wrong I was. It can always, ALWAYS be worse.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #2533
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The last one is dangerous. I might want darker skin for the fashions I like, but that would require tanning which isn't good for me. It might also require plastic surgery and the like. My personal sense of style may require me to be taller, but nothing I do will get me that, at least nothing good for me.

    I don't want to learn how to mountain climb (I hate heights) and I hate obstacle courses. So really, what do I have to eat healthy for? An uphill battle against genetic diseases, a fight for decent medical care in the future, no concrete goal in mind. If I ever get the diseases, or am refused health care, no matter what, I will have failed.
    Those were only examples - don't use them. My reasons will not be your reasons, and like I said, I'm still trying to figure out my *real* reasons for wanting to get healthier.

    That's what I thought before I started. Oh, how wrong I was. It can always, ALWAYS be worse.
    You are in a new place, and you won't have to worry about your mom biasing the counselor. Remember, counselors are paid to LISTEN to your needs. If they aren't doing that, then you simply quit going and mutter profanities in regards to their idiocy.

    And you are right, things can always get worse. However, I personally believe that it's better to risk that than to simply accept an unacceptable situation.

  4. #2534
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Any kind of diet where you force yourself to eat foods you don't like is destined to fail. A ton of people have lost fat just by following stuff like Men's Health's "Eat This, Not That" guidelines, which are just suggestions for when you have a choice of two things, making the better choice and ending up saving a ton of calories in the end.

    I understand the "more reasons to be fat" thing very well. I've been there. I think becoming more self-confident in general has helped me be more confident about getting in better shape. I can see life more as a matter of tweaking things to make improvements, rather than as a pile of problems to solve.
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  5. #2535
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    The only reason I have to be thin is to save myself the ridicule of, well, everybody.

    THIS is the only reason I should lose weight -- so I won't be abused.

    I know how to dress myself. I believe that everyone can find fashions that look good on them. Fashion is art, if all art required the same canvas, well, that would just be silly. I'd rather spend my time sewing my own clothes than forcing (and failing) my body to fit into something that it just won't fit in.

    Is to avoid abuse a good enough reason to lose weight? It's a very cowardly thing to do. Should I be fat, or should I be a coward?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #2536
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Any kind of diet where you force yourself to eat foods you don't like is destined to fail. A ton of people have lost fat just by following stuff like Men's Health's "Eat This, Not That" guidelines, which are just suggestions for when you have a choice of two things, making the better choice and ending up saving a ton of calories in the end.

    I understand the "more reasons to be fat" thing very well. I've been there. I think becoming more self-confident in general has helped me be more confident about getting in better shape. I can see life more as a matter of tweaking things to make improvements, rather than as a pile of problems to solve.
    Good stuff, Jeffster.

    I wish I was better at introducing such nuances into my life. That's one good thing about this program I'm in right now. I'm VERY far from being inspired or motivated, but many of my minor tweaks are still at play. I'm not losing weight, but I'm still eating lots of healthy food and maintaining weight, which is a step up from how I usually am when I get into these moods.

    Still, it'll be nice to finally break the 280 mark. I'm so close...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The only reason I have to be thin is to save myself the ridicule of, well, everybody.

    THIS is the only reason I should lose weight -- so I won't be abused.

    I know how to dress myself. I believe that everyone can find fashions that look good on them. Fashion is art, if all art required the same canvas, well, that would just be silly. I'd rather spend my time sewing my own clothes than forcing (and failing) my body to fit into something that it just won't fit in.

    Is to avoid abuse a good enough reason to lose weight? It's a very cowardly thing to do. Should I be fat, or should I be a coward?
    Do you think that losing weight to avoid ridicule is a good reason?
    How is it working out for you so far?

    The fashion thing, truly, is my issue. I wasn’t trying to suggest you use it as your own personal incentive by any means. I'm not sure why it's so important to me... they say that a healthy E9 starts to take on 3 characteristics, and 3s are notoriously image conscious. …Perhaps after wearing plain cloths designed specifically to keep me from being noticed, I want to add a bit of art, passion, and personality to my wardrobe. Who knows. All I know is that the last 2 times I went clothes shopping, it was very frustrating. It was already somewhat challenging to find stuff due to my height, and now it’s essentially impossible.

  7. #2537
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I'm an E6, which means that when I'm unhealthy, I start to act like a 3. I'm trying to add stuff to my wardrobe, too, but I'm not doing it fantasizing about a new body I'll never have, I'm doing it with the body I have now -- which is terrible, because in about five years, I'll have gained at least 50 lbs due to my disorder.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #2538
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I'm an E6, which means that when I'm unhealthy, I start to act like a 3. I'm trying to add stuff to my wardrobe, too, but I'm not doing it fantasizing about a new body I'll never have, I'm doing it with the body I have now
    Smart. One advantage of my weight loss plan is that I will need to buy cheaper clothes, and refresh my wardrobe as I quit fitting into them. This will allow for some experimentation.

    -- which is terrible, because in about five years, I'll have gained at least 50 lbs due to my disorder.
    Only if you don't seek the help you need.

    You have to ask yourself: Do you decide that you've had enough now, or do you weight 5 years and 50 pounds, and THEN finally decide you've had enough. I'm willing to bet that 5 years from now, when you finally do reach your limit, you will look back and wish you took action now.

  9. #2539
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Smart. One advantage of my weight loss plan is that I will need to buy cheaper clothes, and refresh my wardrobe as I quit fitting into them. This will allow for some experimentation.



    Only if you don't seek the help you need.

    You have to ask yourself: Do you decide that you've had enough now, or do you weight 5 years and 50 pounds, and THEN finally decide you've had enough. I'm willing to bet that 5 years from now, when you finally do reach your limit, you will look back and wish you took action now.
    I don't think you understand, the 50 lbs is UNAVOIDABLE if it happens. It's a SYMPTOM of the condition. There's really nothing you can do about it. This is where you are wrong, you're wrong, because weight gain is not a magical thing that can be prevented by eating exactly the right things, or exercising enough, or blah blah blah. Do you wonder why people who have weight loss surgery, which physically alters their stomach so they digest less food almost always gain the weight back? It's because weight, to a large extent, is not determined by what you eat. You can only control your weight within a range of about 20 lbs or so, so a 50 lb gain might become a 30 or 70 lb gain, but really, compared to everything, that's not that much of a difference. Yes, a severe restriction of calories will cause you to lose weight. People in concentration camps are notorious for being very, very thin, and are thus proof that everyone can be thin -- but people seem to forget, those in concentration camps were dying.

    I am so disgusted by the world that I no longer wish to live in it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #2540
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I don't think you understand, the 50 lbs is UNAVOIDABLE if it happens. It's a SYMPTOM of the condition. There's really nothing you can do about it.
    What's the condition?

    This is where you are wrong, you're wrong, because weight gain is not a magical thing that can be prevented by eating exactly the right things, or exercising enough, or blah blah blah.
    What are "exactly the right foods"? Be specific, as if you were trying to create exactly the right diet.

    Do you wonder why people who have weight loss surgery, which physically alters their stomach so they digest less food almost always gain the weight back?
    No, I don't wonder. It's because most people that do these drastic surgeries are trying to avoid the hard road, and are looking for quick fixes to their weight problems.

    They alter their stomachs to attempt to curb their appetite, but they eventually regress to eating junk, not being nearly active enough, and living stressful lives.

    It's because weight, to a large extent, is not determined by what you eat. You can only control your weight within a range of about 20 lbs or so, so a 50 lb gain might become a 30 or 70 lb gain, but really, compared to everything, that's not that much of a difference.
    You know, there *is* one thing that makes it nearly impossible to lose weight: Stress. See, stress takes blood away from the digestive system. Your metabolism shoots down to almost nothing, causing you to burn far less calories than normal.

    It can be legitimately difficult to lose significant weight when stressed (unless you starve yourself). However, that doesn't mean it's impossible to lose weight - it just means you have to handle the stress before you can even begin to handle the weight.

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