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  1. #1521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenomite View Post
    Random question:

    I am 5'7" and ~127 pounds, so I'm not overweight, but most of it isn't muscle. Basically, I'm in a healthy weight range, but I have a bit of a gut.

    I have two goals:
    a) Get rid of gut
    b) Build muscle

    The problem is, these two goals seem to contradict each other. To gain muscle, you need to eat more calories than you use, and to burn fat, you need to burn more calories than you use. How should I go about doing both?

    Any advice would be much appreciated :P

    EDIT: On a side note, I've been keeping up with my plan well so far. I'm home for the week for school break, so my parents are attempting to shove lots of horrible (delicious) food down my throat, so I have a bit of a diet cheat for today haha. Luckily, we have a treadmill here, so I can keep up with the 30 minutes every-other-day plan.
    Initially it is better to get lean. If you haven't much experience with weight training you can achieve both at first. The reason it is better to get lean first is that when you do overeat (and you don't need to eat that much) more of the energy will be pushed to make muscle. The higher the percentage of body fat you have the more percentage of calories will be used to store more fat. What percentage bodyfat are you? Below 10% focus on building muscle, above focus on leaning out.

    Even with fat loss weight training comes first.

    The Hierarchy of Fat Loss
    by Alwyn Cosgrove

    Five Factors for Fat Loss Training

    1. Metabolic Resistance Training

    Basically we're using resistance training as the cornerstone of our fat loss programming. Our goal is to work every muscle group hard, frequently, and with an intensity that creates a massive "metabolic disturbance" or "afterburn" that leaves the metabolism elevated for several hours post-workout.

    A couple of studies to support this:

    Schuenke MD, Mikat RP, McBride JM.

    Effect of an acute period of resistance exercise on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption: implications for body mass management.
    Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Mar;86(5):411-7. Epub 2002 Jan 29.

    This study used a circuit training protocol of 12 sets in 31 minutes. EPOC was elevated significantly for 38 hours post-workout.

    Thirty-eight hours is a pretty significant timeframe for metabolism to be elevated. If you trained at 9AM until 10AM on Monday morning, you're still burning more calories (without training) at midnight on Tuesday.

    Can we compound this with additional training within that 38 hours? No research has been done, but I have enough case studies to believe that you can.

    Another:

    Kramer, Volek et al.

    Influence of exercise training on physiological and performance changes with weight loss in men.

    Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 31, No. 9, pp. 1320-1329, 1999.

    Overweight subjects were assigned to three groups: diet-only, diet plus aerobics, diet plus aerobics plus weights. The diet group lost 14.6 pounds of fat in 12 weeks. The aerobic group lost only one more pound (15.6 pounds) than the diet group (training was three times a week starting at 30 minutes and progressing to 50 minutes over the 12 weeks).

    The weight training group lost 21.1 pounds of fat (44% and 35% more than diet and aerobic only groups respectively). Basically, the addition of aerobic training didn't result in any real world significant fat loss over dieting alone.

    Thirty-six sessions of up to 50 minutes is a lot of work for one additional pound of fat loss. However, the addition of resistance training greatly accelerated fat loss results.

    One more:

    Bryner RW, Ullrich IH, Sauers J, Donley D, Hornsby G, Kolar M, Yeater R.

    Effects of resistance vs. aerobic training combined with an 800 calorie liquid diet on lean body mass and resting metabolic rate.
    J Am Coll Nutr. 1999 Apr;18(2):115-21.

    The aerobic group performed four hours of aerobics per week. The resistance training group performed 2-4 sets of 8-15 reps, 10 exercises, three times per week.

    V02 max increased equally in both groups. Both groups lost weight. The resistance training group lost significantly more fat and didn't lose any LBM, even at only 800 calories per day. (The reason the calories were so low was to really take any dietary variables completely out of the equation and compare the effects of the exercise regime on LBM and metabolism.)

    The resistance training group actually increased metabolism compared to the aerobic group, which decreased metabolism. It seems that resistance training is a more significant stress to the body than a starvation diet.

    In my experience, full body training in a superset, tri-set, or circuit format (with non-competing exercises) in a rep range that generates lactic acid (and pushes the lactic acid threshold or LAT) seems to create the biggest metabolic demand. It makes sense: training legs, back, and chest will burn more calories and elevate metabolism more than an isolated approach training one of them.

    The rep range that seems to work best is the 8-12 hypertrophy range, although going higher will work just as well with a less trained population.

    For a powerlifter or an advanced bodybuilder, doing one max effort exercise or heavy, low-rep lift is more than enough to maintain your current strength levels. Examples:

    Powerlifter

    Exercise One: Max Effort Squat ó work up to a 3RM. Transitioning into metabolic work.

    Bodybuilder

    Exercise Sequence:

    1A: Bench press, 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps

    1B: Row, 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps


    Transitioning into metabolic work

    2. High Intensity Anaerobic Interval Training

    The second key "ingredient" in fat loss programming is high intensity interval training (HIIT). I think readers of T-Nation will be well aware of the benefits of interval work. It burns more calories than steady state and elevates metabolism significantly more than other forms of cardio. The downside is that it flat-out sucks to do it!

    The landmark study in interval training was from Tremblay:

    Tremblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C.

    Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism.
    Metabolism. 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8

    This study pitted 20 weeks of endurance training against 15 weeks of interval training:

    Energy cost of endurance training = 28661 calories.
    Energy cost of interval training = 13614 calories (less than half)

    The interval training group showed a nine times greater loss in subcutaneous fat than the endurance group (when corrected for energy cost).

    Read that again. Calorie for calorie, the interval training group lost nine times more fat overall. Why? Maybe it's EPOC, an upregulation of fat burning enzyme activity, or straight up G-Flux. I don't care. I'm a real world guy. If the interval training group had lost the same fat as the endurance group, we'd get the same results in less time. That means interval training is a better tool in your fat loss arsenal.


    3. High Intensity Aerobic Interval Training

    The next tool we'll pull out is essentially a lower intensity interval method where we use aerobic intervals.

    Talanian, Galloway et al

    Two weeks of High-Intensity Aerobic Interval Training increases the capacity for fat oxidation during exercise in women.
    J Appl Physiol (December 14, 2006). doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01098.2006

    This study looked at high-intensity aerobic interval training and its influence on fat oxidation. In summary, seven sessions of HIIT over two weeks induced marked increases in whole body and skeletal muscle capacity for fatty acid oxidation during exercise in moderately active women. In layman's terms, the interval work appeared to "upregulate" fat burning enzymes.

    Basically this means we can burn more fat in other activities as a result of this inclusion. In other words, we get some more bang for our buck.

    A quick disclaimer though: my colleague Alan Aragon once said, "Caring about how much fat is burned during exercise is equivalent to worrying about how much muscle is built during exercise." In other words, substrate utilization during exercise isn't really an important variable in the big picture of fat loss ó total calories burned overall is.


    4. Steady State High Intensity Aerobic Training

    Tool number four is just hard cardio work. This time we're burning calories ó we aren't working hard enough to increase EPOC significantly or to do anything beyond the session itself. But calories do count. Burning another 300 or so calories per day will add up.


    5. Steady State Low Intensity Aerobic Training

    This is just activity, going for a walk in the park, etc. It won't burn a lot of calories; it won't increase muscle or EPOC.

    There isn't very much research showing that low intensity aerobic training actually results in very much additional fat loss, but you're going to have to really work to convince me that moving more is going to hurt you when you're in fat attack mode.
    Also, change your avatar... to vodka. If you want to drink when getting lean, spirits are best.

  2. #1522
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    INTJMom suggested going to Amazon.com and reading the reviews of various workouts. Take special note of the negative reviews (1, 2, and even 3 star reviews) so see why they were rated negatively.

    The alternative is lowering the volume, or altogether muting the TV once you get the hang of the workout.
    I'll look into that -- I'm guessing look for videos with the critique that the instructor didn't "get into it" or something?

    Yeah. Probably not going to work out this weekend. I thought yesterday's walking would be fine, but I ended up collapsing on my bed after school and falling asleep for like, three hours. I see the doctor on Tuesday, but hopefully I feel better on Monday
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #1523
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Initially it is better to get lean. If you haven't much experience with weight training you can achieve both at first. The reason it is better to get lean first is that when you do overeat (and you don't need to eat that much) more of the energy will be pushed to make muscle. The higher the percentage of body fat you have the more percentage of calories will be used to store more fat. What percentage bodyfat are you? Below 10% focus on building muscle, above focus on leaning out.

    Even with fat loss weight training comes first.

    Also, change your avatar... to vodka. If you want to drink when getting lean, spirits are best.
    Thanks for the info!

    I just used some calculator online and it came out with these results:
    You have 14.5% body fat.
    You have 18.4 Pounds of fat and 108.6 Pounds of lean
    (muscle, bone, body water).
    I might have messed up a bit on the measurements, but that should be essentially right.

    So does that mean that I should focus on leaning out? I'd like to build muscle, but my main focus at this point is getting rid of the gut that I have going. It's weird though, because I can still wear size 30 jeans with a belt, but I'm not skinny. Not quite sure what to do about it.

    I read that entire article you posted, and I basically took from it that metabolic resistance training combined with interval training, along with a healthy diet, will do the trick. Interval training seems pretty intense, but it isn't the first time that I've heard about it working much better than steady-rate running.
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  4. #1524
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I'll look into that -- I'm guessing look for videos with the critique that the instructor didn't "get into it" or something?
    ...
    The teacher I use is 60 years old. I love that we do ballet moves as stretching exercises. I love that she is slightly imperfect. Some reviews complained that the routines were too easy or too slow or that she was too corny. I happen to love those things about her. Her workouts are for 50-65 year olds, not 20 year olds.

    I also bought a Denise Austin DVD but she is way too advanced for me right now. I hurt for 3 days when I was done with that.

  5. #1525
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    I'm sick....have a sore throat and coming down with a cold. Hope it is not the flu because I will be traveling soon. Feel horrible and didn't get any exercise in today. Just drinking lots of hot liquids and Vitamin C by the box. Hopefully back to fighting fit soon...

  6. #1526

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenomite View Post
    Thanks for the info!

    I just used some calculator online and it came out with these results:
    You have 14.5% body fat.
    You have 18.4 Pounds of fat and 108.6 Pounds of lean
    (muscle, bone, body water).
    I might have messed up a bit on the measurements, but that should be essentially right.

    So does that mean that I should focus on leaning out? I'd like to build muscle, but my main focus at this point is getting rid of the gut that I have going. It's weird though, because I can still wear size 30 jeans with a belt, but I'm not skinny. Not quite sure what to do about it.

    I read that entire article you posted, and I basically took from it that metabolic resistance training combined with interval training, along with a healthy diet, will do the trick. Interval training seems pretty intense, but it isn't the first time that I've heard about it working much better than steady-rate running.
    Lean out. Do the weights and the metabolic training. Keep protein up, lower carbs and make sure you get enough nutrition.

    Just try something and see what happens. I think you'll find you move towards both goals simultaneously.

  7. #1527
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Lean out. Do the weights and the metabolic training. Keep protein up, lower carbs and make sure you get enough nutrition.

    Just try something and see what happens. I think you'll find you move towards both goals simultaneously.
    Got ya, thanks

    (Sorry, I just found that emoticon and it had to be used...)
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  8. #1528
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenomite View Post
    Got ya, thanks

    (Sorry, I just found that emoticon and it had to be used...)
    You're riding a llama? That doesn't count! Quit slacking, get off the llama, and go do some jogging!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonester View Post
    Ahem, the Bronco's are going down this weekend.

    Seems like you got your wish! I'm so sorry to hear that you won't be able to continue participating in the challenge anymore.

    .......

  9. #1529
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I did my workout today.

  10. #1530
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I "had" a workout today! I moved 14 boxes of wood flooring to another room. Plus I worked on my room for 4 hours.

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