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  1. #31
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    By: National Soft Drink Association, US Food and Drug Administration, Bunker and McWilliams, Pepsi, Slim-Fast

    How Much Caffeine in Drinks -- Coffee, Tea, Soft Drinks -- Caffeine Content

    But actually I agree with you. The preservatives (the Es) and the sugars added in coca cola, etc., increase the metabolism quickly and they add to the insomnia
    Perhaps so, but the effect is fundamentally different and lasts a long time (roughly 5 hours after ingestion for normal people, up to 15 hours depending on other factors).

    Pop has roughly half the amount of caffeine than coffee and is not really comparable. The only case that I know of where sugar would have an equivalent effect is in fluctuating blood sugar levels.

    Not that I advise having tons of sugar before going to bed but the link between "hyper" and sugar doesn't exist the way we think it does, if at all.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Perhaps so, but the effect is fundamentally different and lasts a long time (roughly 5 hours after ingestion for normal people, up to 15 hours depending on other factors).

    Pop has roughly half the amount of caffeine than coffee and is not really comparable. The only case that I know of where sugar would have an equivalent effect is in fluctuating blood sugar levels.

    Not that I advise having tons of sugar before going to bed but the link between "hyper" and sugar doesn't exist the way we think it does, if at all.
    Ah, no, I didn't want to imply that the effects of caffeine and sugar are comparable. The metabolic action is totally different (normal, for two totally different molecules) and, of course, sugar is not likely to cause insomnia to an average person. What I meant is that if somebody does have sleeping disorders, a drink with caffeine and sugar is more likely to add to the insomnia.

    Ah, and a detail, probably without any importance: caffeine effects do not last 5 hours. Actually the half-life of caffeine in the organism in about 3 hours, that is the amount of caffeine (and its effects, obviously) is constantly decreased and in roughly 3 hours the amound (and the effect) is half of the inicial. This, plus that the digestive system needs about 0,5 hours to completely digest caffeine would give an effect half an hour after ingestion and for 3 hours more

  3. #33
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    On the whole coke vs coffee thing, I can actually drink a coffee and fall asleep, but coke keeps me awake, infact I never drink coke because I dislike the taste but when I have I have found it kept me awake.

    Coffee is seriously my last drink of the day, and I am flat out not long after.

    When I had insomnia nothing worked putting me to sleep, my bedroom is a haven of serenity yet I couldn't sleep in it. Too much was going on in my head to slow down long enough to sleep and I didn't like the sleeping tablets as I have kids and think it would be dangerous to be that out of it.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    On the whole coke vs coffee thing, I can actually drink a coffee and fall asleep, but coke keeps me awake, infact I never drink coke because I dislike the taste but when I have I have found it kept me awake.

    Coffee is seriously my last drink of the day, and I am flat out not long after.

    When I had insomnia nothing worked putting me to sleep, my bedroom is a haven of serenity yet I couldn't sleep in it. Too much was going on in my head to slow down long enough to sleep and I didn't like the sleeping tablets as I have kids and think it would be dangerous to be that out of it.
    Sleeping pills is the only thing that can make me sleep in a reasonable hour, but I hardly ever take any.
    On the coffee thing: what caffeine really does is increasing the levels of dopanime and possibly epinephrine. Both effects are acute. That is, in a long term, consuption of caffeine has rather chronical effects - the organism slightly increases the usual dopamine levels to be able to moderate caffeine effects.
    And, having said that, I 'd like to add that I am a perfect example of a coffee-maniac. Coffee is the only liquid think besides water that ever crosses my mouth and I'd be more confortable if I were told to give up water than coffee

  5. #35
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    And, having said that, I 'd like to add that I am a perfect example of a coffee-maniac. Coffee is the only liquid think besides water that ever crosses my mouth and I'd be more confortable if I were told to give up water than coffee
    Except I add tea to that list, what with being British and all.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    Except I add tea to that list, what with being British and all.
    Sure, the five'o'clock thing
    I drink tea if I am forced to. I have to add like 5 or 6 spoonfulls of sugar to distract me for the taste, especially if it has herbs in it (menthol and such should be banned of this planet)
    In my coffee, I cannot stand even the idea of having sugar

  7. #37
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Sure, the five'o'clock thing
    I drink tea if I am forced to. I have to add like 5 or 6 spoonfulls of sugar to distract me for the taste, especially if it has herbs in it (menthol and such should be banned of this planet)
    In my coffee, I cannot stand even the idea of having sugar
    I thought I took alot of sugar but yikes that is alot.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I thought I took alot of sugar but yikes that is alot.
    I was about to answer about my sugar preferences, but I think I have this very bad habit to totally derail every possible thread, so I thought I 'd better no
    Last edited by lastrailway; 09-15-2007 at 05:36 PM. Reason: no, I said I won't derail this one

  9. #39
    Senior Member Crabapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It really comes down to why you can't sleep. If it is just behavioural, you can train yourself out of it really quickly. However, if it's a mix, or just biological, nothing you do will matter at all. You will literally take things that should knock you out... but they'll just make you drowsy - ie: drugged. If that's the case, you'll be stuck getting some very powerful things that practically induce sleep... and you have a very high chance getting addicted to them.

    In any case, the three things I can suggest;

    1) Use your bed for sleep. Nothing else but sleeping. When you go to bed, if you can't fall asleep within x time (normally from 10-30min), you get up and do something tedious. You don't read or anything similar. Nothing that engages your mind. And to emphasise this one more time - do not do anything else in bed - no reading, no napping, no watching TV... maybe sex, but that's about it.

    2) Excersize, but give time before you go to bed - more than 2 hours. This works because stress and an active mind are bad news for sleeping, but the excersize does cause your body to wind down - after the high. It shouldn't be intensive, a good 30 minute walk or anything similar can be enough.

    3) Create a routine for going to bed. This works well with #1, so it should start with or after you have made your bed your sleep area. Always do the same things in the same order for 10-15 minutes before going to sleep. Try very very hard not to interrupt this.

    There was other stuff that the sleep clinic suggested, but I remember these as the core ones.
    I like what PtGatsby suggests..

    You can also try:

    1. count backwards from 100, taking a full, deep breath (in and out) between each number. It actually works...this is supposed to occupy your conscious mind- and perhaps bore you to sleep.

    2. For times when you've gotten up when you can't sleep- I do really easy crossword puzzles that are no fun, and are quite dull. I have no idea why this works. At any rate, don't do anything fun or interesting.

    3. Take a hot bath and then go to bed in a room that's completely dark and a little cool- it's best if you don't wear pajamas, so your body really cools off.

    4. Listen to classical music set on a loop- I like Eine Kleine Nachtmusic. It really works for me.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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  10. #40
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    I usually use OTC sleep aids when I can't sleep. Generally, there's something else in addition to not being able to sleep, so I'll take something like Excedrin PM. The problem I generally have when I take them though is that while I fall asleep pretty well after taking them, I tend to wake up too early.

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