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  1. #71
    Member nocebo's Avatar
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    I agree that forced competition can be damaging.
    But I also agree with Quinlan that learning to exercise is just as important as learning how to work abstract problems. (The only reason working problems is given more emphasis in school is because it makes more money. Further development of technology, etc. People are forgetting the importance of other things!)

    That's why gym classes should hold options like running laps or working in the fitness center. Personally, I hated gym in my elementary days because people just got so... serious about a game. I remember a semi-un-athletic girl in my class who did a really good serve in volleyball, but the teacher made a HUGE deal about her being 2 steps in front of the stupid line.

    I think gym should put emphasis on competing with yourself and your best time, not raging bloody murder on the other team. Giving people a common enemy is NOT the same as natural teamwork!

    I hadn't realized the difference until I started taking martial arts in middle school, and by then I had already ruined my health a fair amount, having assumed that exercise meant misguided competition. Still regret that very much today. :[

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Another thing, why are so many public school gym teachers obese?
    Those who can't do, teach.
    And those who can't teach... teach gym!

  2. #72
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo View Post
    learning to exercise is just as important as learning how to work abstract problems. (The only reason working problems is given more emphasis in school is because it makes more money.
    Tell that to Tiger Woods!
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  3. #73
    Member nocebo's Avatar
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    Lol! Well... in general.

  4. #74
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I think there are valuable lessons that can be learned in PE; it isn't just an energy release/health tool. Some kids learn differently. Some will learn the value of teamwork in a group presentation or project, others will learn it during a game of capture the flag or basketball. Some kids will find pride in creating a painting, others in winning the game. Some will be engaged when learning about atoms, others will be engaged when learning the technique of a long jump.
    Variety in life is good. I'm just not so sure if "forcing" kids to engage in activities they hated would be conducive to learning... Back when I was in high school, there were mandatory PE classes up to (and including) grade 10.

    PE was okay... It wasn't my favourite class... but I don't hate it either. I agree that PE classes should take place so kids get some exercise. I remember after grade 10, the amount of exercise I get went way down. Of course I was also busy prepping for provincials etc but still I had plenty of spare time but they were spent indoors reading or on the computer.

    The idea of grading kids by athletic performances though was meh. 12 minute runs, push up test, jump test... Jump tests were particularly "unfair". It's purely on inane ability. It's not something you can practice to get better at.

    It seems to me, the only people who don't like PE just weren't very good at it, which is understandable. I hate art, because I suck at art. I liked PE, because I'm athletic and I like sports. And really, who doesn't enjoy dumping some kid on his ass with a perfectly spotted dodgeball to the face
    Yup. Only fair I suppose we like things we're good at.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  5. #75
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    In sixth grade, we did pushups once and I was sore as hell. My muscle doubled from that one day of working out.

    I was also a really skinny short wimpy kid before this, and that was my first taste of knowing what any strength or power meant.

    I just wish they made us exercise more in school

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  6. #76
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    The idea of grading kids by athletic performances though was meh. 12 minute runs, push up test, jump test... Jump tests were particularly "unfair". It's purely on inane ability. It's not something you can practice to get better at.
    That makes no sense, if a kid went home everyday and instead of doing maths/science/english homework they just run around, did lots of pushups and jumps, they would improve dramatically.

    I don't see how physical fitness and skills are any more innate than the ability to compute maths problems.

    Some kids are naturally inclined to read outside of school, that will give them an advantage in English, some kids are naturally inclined to solve problems outside of school, that will give them an advantage in Maths, some kids are naturally inclined to run around and roughhouse after school, this will give them an advantage in PE. None of it is innate except for the initial inclination towards certain interests.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Half the day should be PE, with the rest made up of woodwork, metalwork, art and outdoor ed.

    /SPness
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    That's probably how a lot of SPs feel about school as it is! Too much pointless stuff like math, chemistry, english and physics and none of that really meaningful stuff I mentioned above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    The 3-dimensional areas of Art Education (woodwork, metal work and ceramics) offer ample opportunity for physical developement and impovement of coordination. Moving and processing materials with machinery or (preferably) by hand while learning the math and concepts necessary for design offer an integrated approach to both the physical and mental aspects of education. Direct interaction with raw material also allows a student deeper awareness of resource management and environmental impact. The results of the work are tangible and useful (though early efforts may be something only a mother could love...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I call bullshit on the article posted in the OP.

    I don't care what any group of researchers thinks they found, the following statements are undeniable truths:

    (1) The mind and the body are one. A weak mind will weaken a strong body; a strong mind will strengthen a weak body. A strong body will strengthen a weak mind; a weak body will weaken a strong mind. Academic intelligence and physical intelligence are mutually beneficial to each other.

    (2) Children need to develop hand/eye coordination, fine motor skills, and the ability to work in teams. PE activities accomplish these fundamental developmental objectives, especially for those kids whose parents are sorry enough to not make sure they are engaging in physical exercise of some variety.

    (3) Children need to be able to function in a competitive environment. Getting an "A" in any academic subject is the student Vs. the textbook. Winning a game of soccer, volleyball, kickball, etc. is one team of students Vs. another. Our world is competitive; kids must be able to function in a competitive environment, which PE fosters albeit in a basic capacity.

    So there.



    -Alex
    I got sick of quoting. But I agree with these guys.
    All physical skill can be improved, including jumping.

    A lot of people are whining because they didn't like PE, that's irrelevant.
    The whole school system is structured poorly. What makes PE any different than any other class?

    Hold up your hand if you think physical skills are useless and shouldn't be taught. Somebody tell me that good eating habits and how to exercise are not essential skills.

    We are not talking about PE as it is, we are talking about PE.

  8. #78
    heart on fire
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    Who here had to wait to go to school to *learn* how to run and play, ride your Big Wheel or Bike or play on the swings? Don't most teenagers, especially girls, dance to music when they are alone? Don't most teens still like to ride their bikes or go for walks? The body likes to move, especially when it's young. It's innate.

    The whole point of the article is that enforced exercise at school in an long period likely does no better than children playing in spurts while away from school.

    I really don't care about the issue of who was better at jumping or going up and down a rope, that's not what the article was talking about. The article is talking about fitness not prowess.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Who here had to wait to go to school to *learn* how to run and play, ride your Big Wheel or Bike or play on the swings? It's innate.

    The whole point of the article is that enforced exercise at school in an long period likely does no better than children playing in spurts while away from school.

    I really don't care about the issue of who was better at jumping or going up and down a rope, that's not what the article was talking about. The article is talking about fitness not prowess.
    Do you feel PE as it is now is a waste of time or PE itself is a waste of time?
    My kids can do simple math naturally. They didn't need to learn that in school. Maybe they don't need to learn more.
    There is another reason to exercise at school. Kids need to spend their energy otherwise they can't concentrate.

  10. #80
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    That makes no sense, if a kid went home everyday and instead of doing maths/science/english homework they just run around, did lots of pushups and jumps, they would improve dramatically.

    I don't see how physical fitness and skills are any more innate than the ability to compute maths problems.
    Jumping is innate. Or maybe I'm just a weirdo... I get perfect score for that silly jump test. No practice required.

    Physical fitness is important. I definitely agree with that... just not so sure about grading fitness.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

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