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Running Shoes: Increase price tag -> increase injury

nightning

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The painful truth about trainers: Are expensive running shoes a waste of money? | Mail Online

My favourite parts
The modern running shoe was essentially invented by Nike. The company was founded in the Seventies by Phil Knight, a University of Oregon runner, and Bill Bowerman, the University of Oregon coach.

...

In between writing and coaching, Bowerman came up with the idea of sticking a hunk of rubber under the heel of his pumps. It was, he said, to stop the feet tiring and give them an edge. With the heel raised, he reasoned, gravity would push them forward ahead of the next man. Bowerman called Nike's first shoe the Cortez - after the conquistador who plundered the New World for gold and unleashed a horrific smallpox epidemic.

It is an irony not wasted on his detractors. In essence, he had created a market for a product and then created the product itself.

In a paper for the British Journal Of Sports Medicine last year, Dr Craig Richards, a researcher at the University of Newcastle in Australia, revealed there are no evidence-based studies that demonstrate running shoes make you less prone to injury. Not one.

Runners wearing top-of-the-line trainers are 123 per cent more likely to get injured than runners in cheap ones. This was discovered as far back as 1989, according to a study led by Dr Bernard Marti, the leading preventative-medicine specialist at Switzerland's University of Bern.
Running in muddy terrain

...

It wasn't even body weight or a history of previous injury. It was the price of the shoe. Runners in shoes that cost more than $95 were more than twice as likely to get hurt as runners in shoes that cost less than $40.

To extend the idea... Just think of all the different type of insoles we have in the market for "protecting" our feet, relieving pain... gel shock absorbers etc. :shock:
 

Udog

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Wow, very interesting. :shock:

What's really interesting is that these shoes may in fact be causing the issues that some people have with over-pronation or supination... which to me was the main justification for a specialized trainer in the first place!

EDIT: Crap, I just noticed this is from the Dailymail. I'm going to have to really look at this article much more closely, because my skepticism just went up +100 points.
 
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professor goodstain

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I've found that most soles are one size fits all. I oversupinate to the point that my feet could be classified as introverts. What i do is take the sole to a grinder and grind down (yet still maintain a natural plane) the part i won't wear down over time. What that did was correct the collapse (heal strike) to the extent that i avoid accute injuries such as chondromalacia:)
 

ptgatsby

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To extend the idea... Just think of all the different type of insoles we have in the market for "protecting" our feet, relieving pain... gel shock absorbers etc. :shock:

I only scanned it, but off the top of my head;

1) More expensive shoes = more miles ran (more serious about running)
2) More expensive shoes = 'pro golfer' syndrome, where those that jump into it spend lots of money rather than learn proper technique/etc.
3) Higher priced shoes can be luxury items and offer less benefit - there are two assertions that need to be validated.
4) Higher priced shoes are experimental (notably 25 years ago)

Also, a lack of studies supporting the hypothesis is different than no studies being done - I'm not sure which the article is putting forth.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised from the outcome. There are lots of things that are like this.
 

Venom

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well im gonna call foul on this study (though i fully admit that i didnt read it haha)

i wear Asiics (spelling?). i was originally running in Adidas Superstar IIs (low cut, flat sole shoes) and i was getting horrible shin splints, my foot was rolling in. i tried "correcting it" with running form alone, strengthening the tibalies anterior etc and my shin splints would not go away.

with the asiics the pain has gone away. is my finding scientific? no. however, i can infer that the cushyness of the shoe + the stronger instep of the shoe are probably reasons for my recovery.

running barefoot on grass = least injuries
sadly some of us dont have that luxury of running barefoot on grass. for people who run on hard surfaces, running shoes help, a lot.
 

nightning

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EDIT: Crap, I just noticed this is from the Dailymail. I'm going to have to really look at this article much more closely, because my skepticism just went up +100 points.
Hah! You know, I didn't notice until you've mentioned it. I glance through some of their articles and a lot of them are way out there. Skimming through the health section, the facts they stated are correct... their interpretations though can be biased...

I only scanned it, but off the top of my head;

1) More expensive shoes = more miles ran (more serious about running)
2) More expensive shoes = 'pro golfer' syndrome, where those that jump into it spend lots of money rather than learn proper technique/etc.
3) Higher priced shoes can be luxury items and offer less benefit - there are two assertions that need to be validated.
4) Higher priced shoes are experimental (notably 25 years ago)

Also, a lack of studies supporting the hypothesis is different than no studies being done - I'm not sure which the article is putting forth.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised from the outcome. There are lots of things that are like this.
They cited results from what looks like a scientific journal (I didn't check their primary sources). So I assumed mileage, intensive of running etc has been counter-balanced.

Lack of support for hypothesis does not prove or disprove it. True. Just amusing in the paragraph that follows that says a scientist sent a challenge to all the shoe manufacturers to demonstrate their shoes help reduce injuries through the use of proper randomize/blinded studies and gotten no response back.

Edit: I find this paper comparing cost of running shoes to performance values. Study design was perfect... The stats they did was flawless. Pilot testing, power analysis, P-value corrections etc... They found price had no effect on plantar pressure and is not correlated to subjective rating of comfort.

Do you get value for money when you buy an expensive pair of running shoes? -- Clinghan et al., 10.1136/bjsm.2007.038844 -- British Journal of Sports Medicine

There's also an accompanying eLetter
BJSM -- eLetters for Clinghan et al., 0 (2007) 200703884
 

ptgatsby

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Edit: I find this paper comparing cost of running shoes to performance values. Study design was perfect... The stats they did was flawless. Pilot testing, power analysis, P-value corrections etc... They found price had no effect on plantar pressure and is not correlated to subjective rating of comfort.

No such thing :D But that's certainly good enough for me. I'm not surprised.

Course, higher prices could be because of longevity or specific needs. Or just market segmentation, and human price biases. (I'm betting on "price heuristic" personally)
 

nightning

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No such thing :D But that's certainly good enough for me. I'm not surprised.

Course, higher prices could be because of longevity or specific needs. Or just market segmentation, and human price biases. (I'm betting on "price heuristic" personally)

I think we're simply deluding ourselves that more expensive = better quality. :devil:
 

Fluffywolf

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I don't own running shoes. But as far as normal shoes go.

I got a pair of very expensive hand-crafted shoes, and putting them around my feet is like having sex. The very first time I slipped them around my curvy feet, sliding my toes to the very depths of the shoes, I knew that I had met my feet's soulmates.
 

phoenity

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I believe this. I've experimented with many different expensive running shoes over the years, and even though a pair might feel incredible at first, they soon start to hurt me. The pain is usually reflected in my knees, or in my shins as shin splints. I now have the idea that this is because they are messing up my biomechanics.

Some of the best running shoes I've ever owned are a pair of Nike Free. Running in these has changed my view on running altogether. Previously, I would get up to a decent mileage, then stop and move on to another sport because I was developing pain which I was afraid would lead to injury. I would throw the shoes in a closet, until I decided I wanted to get back into running where I'd end up trying a new pair of shoes. However, with the Frees, the more mileage I get on my feet, the farther I can run and the stronger my feet become.

I don't believe this is coincidence. Just look at the Tarahumara who's lifestyle revolves around running as transportation. They'll run over 100 miles in a single day with nothing on their feet but simple rubber tire tread for protection.

Our bodies evolved to be efficient machines as they were designed. It's our lifestyles and accessories that interfere with nature, and cause the problems that we try to fix with expensive shoes and specialty insoles.
 

JAVO

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I believe the conclusions of the article because I conducted my own "experiment" last year. I ran barefoot on mostly concrete and asphalt pavement for around 2 weeks. I eventually encountered bleeding blisters which forced me to stop because I hadn't given the skin on the soles of my feet time to adapt. Other than that, I was able to run more and longer distances with less muscle soreness and no left knee pain like I usually experience when overtraining. I think this was due to improved biomechanics due to my feet being able to more accurately sense their position and weight distribution. I hope to try to adapt to barefoot running again when I have more motivation and patience.
 

Kasper

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^ That would cane me.

I agree that more expensive /= better quality but for me that experiment would result in a great deal of leg and back pain. I don't buy the most expensive shoes out there but I don't skimp either, I get my podiatrist to recommend brands and styles that will do what they claim they will. Buying off the shelf without knowing what you need means you're looking at how they feel in the store and how pretty they are, both somewhat meaningless factors for what is going to be best when training. Wearing poor quality shoes has a very bad impact on me.
 

phoenity

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A real life example. My brother is trying to get into shape to go into the military. He's not a runner at all. He went to a running specific store, where they filmed him running on a treadmill, and determined that he was an overpronator. So they recommended several shoes, and he went home with a pair of Brooks that are designed to correct overpronation.

He's been running for about four weeks now, gradually increasing his mileage. But he's been experiencing knee pain, which has gradually been getting worse, and this week he's stopped running to take a break from his injury.

I told him if his biomechanics were correct, his joints should be getting stronger, and he should be experiencing less pain and soreness than he did the first week he started.

The Brooks he bought, were coincidentally the same Brooks I had bought over a year ago. I had the exact same experience with them. They were hurting my knees even when I was using them as casual shoes and no longer running. I since have given them away.


My knees stopped hurting when I switched back to my Nike Frees, and I am convinced by this personal experience, that I don't need arch support, stability control, and excess cushioning. I don't need a prosthetic altering and controlling the natural motion of my foot. All I need are for my feet to be strong and support themselves, they know how to take it from there.

If you consider why overpronation occurs in the first place, which is the collapse of the arch upon weight bearing, then it should make sense that a pair of shoes designed only to treat the symptoms will do nothing more than act as a crutch. The problem should be treated at the cause, which is your weak arches causing your feet to flatten.


http://www.eons.com/uploads/3/1/31560301_Men_Who Live Forever.pdf

Orton is part of a growing movement of Free Your Feet rebels, who believe it's not running that causes injuries, but running form and economy of training. One of the more vocal -- and surprising -- members of this group is Gerard Hartmann, Ph.D., an exercise physiologist who works with the world's greatest marathoners and also consults for Nike. According to Hartmann, the vast majority of running-related foot injuries are a result of too much foam-injected pampering. Running shoes have become so supercushioned and motion-controlling, they allow our foot muscles to atrophy and our tendons to shorten and stiffen. Without strength and flexibility, injuries are inevitable.
"The deconditioned musculature of the foot is the greatest issue leading to injury," Hartmann explains. "If I give you a collar to wear around your neck, in 4 to 6 weeks, we'll find 40 to 60 percent atrophy of musculature. That's why this emphasis on cushioning and motion control makes no sense.
One of Hartmann's star clients, marathon world-record holder Paula Radcliffe, has been training in the Nike Free, a new, minimalist slipper designed to mimic the range of motion of a naked foot. Alan Webb, America's best miler, also works out in the Free. Webb had been hobbled by foot injuries early in his career, but after he started barefoot exercises, his injuries disappeared, and his shoe size shrank, from a 12 to a 9. "My foot muscles became so strong, they pulled my arches up," says Webb. "Wearing too much shoe prevents you from tapping into the natural gait you have when landing on the ground."

Full text here: http://www.eons.com/uploads/3/1/31560301_Men_Who Live Forever.pdf
 

phoenity

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I believe the conclusions of the article because I conducted my own "experiment" last year. I ran barefoot on mostly concrete and asphalt pavement for around 2 weeks. I eventually encountered bleeding blisters which forced me to stop because I hadn't given the skin on the soles of my feet time to adapt. Other than that, I was able to run more and longer distances with less muscle soreness and no left knee pain like I usually experience when overtraining. I think this was due to improved biomechanics due to my feet being able to more accurately sense their position and weight distribution. I hope to try to adapt to barefoot running again when I have more motivation and patience.

Try a pair of Vibram Five Fingers. Essentially a sock, with a rubber bottom to protect your feet from abrasion.

If those are too much, you can try making your own flat rubber sandals from a old tire and some straps of leather:

YouTube - How to Wear Tarahumara Huarache Running Sandals
 

nocebo

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Try a pair of Vibram Five Fingers. Essentially a sock, with a rubber bottom to protect your feet from abrasion.[/url]

Yeah, I have the SPRINT version, and they're amazing!
Before that, I used to run in layered socks. Just buy the thickest socks available and wear them on-top of each other. (This doesn't really work in rain or snow though)

My ankles and knees began hurting after a few years of running with sneakers, and I'm pretty convinced they also lead to flat-feet. Be weary of those... things.
 

nocebo

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If you consider why overpronation occurs in the first place, which is the collapse of the arch upon weight bearing, then it should make sense that a pair of shoes designed only to treat the symptoms will do nothing more than act as a crutch. The problem should be treated at the cause, which is your weak arches causing your feet to flatten.

True story! :yes:
I'm very skeptical of doctors who claim it's a part of old age, or that some feet as "just like that". It doesn't make sense. Your arches are flexible enough to develop well into your adolescence.
 

ajblaise

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Maybe I'm oblivious, but I notice zero difference in between different shoes. I might as well be wearing cleats.
 

Kasper

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Maybe I'm oblivious, but I notice zero difference in between different shoes. I might as well be wearing cleats.

If you had problems with your feet, legs or back you'd notice.
 

avolkiteshvara

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I remember reading some article about this guy that was a regular marathoner. He had shin splints all the time and plantar facitis.

He went down to the copper canyon in Mexico to train with the tarahumara indians. Basically they just wear these crudely constructed sandals. He all his chronic injuries went away and he became the strongest runner he's ever been.

I think it was in Men's Health. Also I know alot of the Crossfit guys believe in no shoes.

Seems like there are two schools of thought:

Support/comfort(shoes, orthotics, etc) vs letting foot develop naturally.
 
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