The Lifting Thread

[wolfy]

For people who like to lift heavy things.
Who trains here? What do you do?

This is for a general discussion of weight training.

 

[Halla74]

I'm a veteran powerlifter and bodybuilder. I've been lifting since I can remember, seriously at least 18 years.

At this point in my development I am in maintenance mode. I have maximized my frame to the point that my genetics will allow me.

The only fine tuning I do on an ongoing basis is:

(1) Modify my diet (carb depletion) or my cardiovascular work (increase it) when I wish to get leaner. I stay at about 8-10% bodyfat, so when I say get leaner I am not talking about losing 20 pounds, just enough to stay at my desired equilibrium.

(2) Hit my genetic weak points a little harder from time to time to keep them in check.

The core of my workout is free weights, dumbbells, and machines, in that order. I do my heaviest lifting first regardless of what bodyparts I am training on a given day, and then from there break it down with super sets, giant sets, and drop sets. I do not take alot of rest in between sets, we're talking seconds.

For the most part I always do 30-60 minutes of cardio first, then lift for about 30 minutes. About once per week I'll nix the cardio and go straight into the weights and train heavy, and keep that up for about 45-60 minutes. I lift 3-4 times per week, ideally, sometimes only twice per week when I am slammed with work/school, but on those weeks I at least do push-ups/sit-ups/some dumbbell work at home or take a good jog around the neighborhood.

My nutrition is very good. I drink lots of water each day. The only other fluids I drink are coffee, red wine, green/black tea. I NEVER drink soda. I throw back a few vodka + cranberries/lime from time to time, and I enjoy an occasional cigar.

 

[wolfy]

Cool! I've been lifting about 15 years. Initially for karate but later for it's own sake.

Started Powerlifting 9 years ago. Loved the science behind lifting so went back to school and started working in a gym in NZ. Started Personal Training. Competed in Powerlifting there. Got 3rd in NZ in the 90kg class. 225kg squat 150kg bench 250kg deadlift. Not much by international standards but it was fun.

Moved to Japan 4 years ago and haven't competed here. Still train regularly. 4 times a week.

 

[Halla74]

Cool! I've been lifting about 15 years. Initially for karate but later for it's own sake.
Started Powerlifting 9 years ago. Loved the science behind lifting so went back to school and started working in a gym in NZ. Started Personal Training. Competed in Powerlifting there. Got 3rd in NZ in the 90kg class. 225kg squat 150kg bench 250kg deadlift. Not much by international standards but it was fun.
Moved to Japan 4 years ago and haven't competed here. Still train regularly. 4 times a week.

Awesome! That's great Bro! I wouldn't worry about internatinal standards. What's most important is what's in your immediate proximity and can you physically manipulate your environment and those around you as needed if the shit hits the fan. That's how I've always thought of things, never really been concerned about who can lift more than me.

Weightlifting is the one thing I have been consistently and fiercely dedicated to my entire adult life. As ridiculous as it sounds, it is my meditation. I can't sit still, but I fell at peace after I have exerted myself to the limits of my capacity, am totally exhausted, can barely walk/move correctly, and then shortly after comes that moment of inner peace that generally keeps me level for the next 24 hours.

Are you planning to compete any time soon?

 

[wolfy]

Weightlifting is the one thing I have been consistently and fiercely dedicated to my entire adult life. As ridiculous as it sounds, it is my meditation. I can't sit still, but I fell at peace after I have exerted myself to the limits of my capacity, am totally exhausted, can barely walk/move correctly, and then shortly after comes that moment of inner peace that generally keeps me level for the next 24 hours.

Are you planning to compete any time soon?

I want to do a push pull meet. They have them now and again around this area.

I know exactly what you mean. Heightened sensations after and while training.
Inner peace and meditation I can really relate. Reminds of the old Henry Rollins essay on lifting

Brings tears to my eyes...

Henry Rollins lifting story

I believe that the definition of definition is reinvention. To not be
like you parents. To not be like your friends. To be yourself.
Completely.

When I was young I had no sense of myself. All I was, was a product of
all the fear and humiliation I suffered. Fear of my parents. The
humiliation of teachers calling me "garbage can" and telling me I'd be
mowing lawns for a living. And the very real terror of my fellow
students. I was threatened and beaten up for the color of my skin and
my size. I was skinny and clumsy, and when others would tease me I
didn't run home crying, wondering why. I knew all too well. I was
there to be antagonized. In sports I was laughed at. A spaz. I was
pretty good at boxing but only because the rage that filled my every
waking moment made me wild and unpredictable. I fought with some
strange fury. The other boys thought I was crazy.

I hated myself all the time. As stupid at it seems now, I wanted to
talk like them, dress like them, carry myself with the ease of knowing
that I wasn't going to get pounded in the hallway between classes.

Years passed and I learned to keep it all inside. I only talked to a
few boys in my grade. Other losers. Some of them are to this day the
greatest people I have ever known. Hang out with a guy who has had his
head flushed down a toilet a few times, treat him with respect, and
you'll find a faithful friend forever. But even with friends, school
sucked. Teachers gave me hard time. I didn't think much of them
either.

Then came Mr. Pepperman, my adviser. He was a powerfully built Vietnam
veteran, and he was scary. No one ever talked out of turn in his class.
Once one kid did and Mr. P. lifted him off the ground and pinned him to
the blackboard.

Mr. P. could see that I was in bad shape, and one Friday in October he
asked me if I had ever worked out with weights. I told him no. He told
me that I was going to take some of the money that I had saved and buy a
hundred-pound set of weights at Sears. As I left his office, I started
to think of things I would say to him on Monday when he asked about the
weights that I was not going to buy. Still, it made me feel special.
My father never really got that close to caring. On Saturday I bought
the weights, but I couldn't even drag them to my mom's car. An
attendant laughed at me as he put them on a dolly.

Monday came and I was called into Mr. P.'s office after school. He said
that he was going to show me how to work out. He was going to put me on
a program and start hitting me in the solar plexus in the hallway when I
wasn't looking. When I could take the punch we would know that we were
getting somewhere. At no time was I to look at myself in the mirror or
tell anyone at school what I was doing.

In the gym he showed me ten basic exercises. I paid more attention than
I ever did in any of my classes. I didn't want to blow it. I went home
that night and started right in. Weeks passed, and every once in a
while Mr. P. would give me a shot and drop me in the hallway, sending my
books flying. The other students didn't know what to think. More weeks
passed, and I was steadily adding new weights to the bar. I could sense
the power inside my body growing. I could feel it.

Right before Christmas break I was walking to class, and from out of
nowhere Mr. Pepperman appeared and gave me a shot in the chest. I
laughed and kept going. He said I could look at myself now. I got home
and ran to the bathroom and pulled off my shirt. I saw a body, not just
the shell that housed my stomach and my heart. My biceps bulged. My
chest had definition. I felt strong. It was the first time I can
remember having a sense of myself. I had done something and no one
could ever take it away. You couldn't say shit to me.

It took me years to fully appreciate the value of the lessons I have
learned from the Iron. I used to think that it was my adversary, that I
was trying to lift that which does not want to be lifted. I was wrong.
When the Iron doesn't want to come off the mat, it's the kindest thing
it can do for you. If it flew up and went through the ceiling, it
wouldn't teach you anything. That's the way the Iron talks to you. It
tells you that the material you work with is that which you will come to
resemble. That which you work against will always work against you.

It wasn't until my late twenties that I learned that by working out I
had given myself a great gift. I learned that nothing good comes
without work and a ceratin amount of pain. When I finish a set that
leaves me shaking, I know more about myself. When something gets bad, I
know it can't be as bad as that workout.

I used to fight the pain, but recently this became clear to me: pain is
not my enemy; it is my call to greatness. But when dealing with the
Iron, one must be careful to interpret the pain correctly. Most
injuries involving the Iron come from ego. I once spent a few weeks
lifting weight that my body wasn't ready for and spent a few months not
picking up anything heavier than a fork. Try to lift what you're not
prepared to and the Iron will teach you a little lesson in restraint and
self-control.

I have never met a truly strong person who didn't have self-respect. I
think a lot of inwardly and outwardly directed contempt passes itself
off as self-respect: the idea of raising yourself by stepping on
someone's shoulders instead of doing it yourself. When I see guys
working out for cosmetic reasons, I see vanity exposing them in the
worst way, as cartoon characters, billboards for imbalance and
insecurity. Strength reveals itself through character. It is the
difference between bouncers who get off strong-arming people and Mr.
Pepperman.

Muscle mass does not always equal strength. Strength is kindness and
sensitivity. Strength is understanding that your power is both physical
and emotional. That it comes from the body and the mind. And the
heart.

Yukio Mishima said that he could not entertain the idea of romance if he
was not strong. Romance is such a strong and overwhelming passion, a
weakened body cannot sustain it for long. I have some of my most
romantic thoughts when I am with the Iron. Once I was in love with a
woman. I thought about her the most when the pain from a workout was
racing through my body. Everything in me wanted her. So much so that
sex was only a fraction of my total desire. It was the single most
intense love I have ever felt, but she lived far away and I didn't see
her very often. Working out was a healthy way of dealing with the
loneliness. To this day, when I work out I usually listen to ballads.

I prefer to work out alone. It enables me to concentrate on the lessons
that the Iron has for me. Learning about what you're made of is always
time well spent, and I have found no better teacher. The Iron had
taught me how to live.

Life is capable of driving you out of your mind. The way it all comes
down these days, it's some kind of miracle if you're not insane. People
have become separated from their bodies. They are no longer whole. I
see them move from their offices to their cars and on to their suburban
homes. They stress out constantly, they lose sleep, they eat badly.
And they behave badly. Their egos run wild; they become motivated by
that which will eventually give them a massive stroke. They need the
Iron mind.

Through the years, I have combined meditation, action, and the Iron into
a single strength. I believe that when the body is strong, the mind
thinks strong thoughts. Time spent away from the Iron makes my mind
degenerate. I wallow in a thick depression. My body shuts down my
mind. The Iron is the best antidepressant I have ever found. There is
no better way to fight weakness than with strength. Once the mind and
body have been awakened to their true potential, it's impossible to turn
back.

The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all
kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron
will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference
point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in
the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It
never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two
hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.

 

[Halla74]

Rollins wrote: "Friends may come and go. But two
hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
"

Wolfy, that's the best essay I've read in years. I have never read that before, that kicks ass. Thank you for posting that Bro!

 

[Biaxident]

Wolfy, that's the best essay I've read in years. I have never read that before, that kicks ass. Thank you for posting that Bro!

Ditto.



I still remember my first measurements at 15 years old.

40 inch chest, 38 inch waist, 20 inch thighs, 14 inch calves, 13 inch biceps and 11 inch forearms. Just call me Fatty McFatterson.

Twenty-four years ago...

I have always been eclectic in my workouts. But dead-lifting, benching, and squats will always have a place.

 

[Halla74]

I have always been eclectic in my workouts. But dead-lifting, benching, and squats will always have a place.

I'm convinced if you could only do 3 exercises, those would be the three to do. They are truly the core barbell lifts that will develop a sound muscular foundation in just about anyone.

 

[Biaxident]

I'm convinced if you could only do 3 exercises, those would be the three to do. They are truly the core barbell lifts that will develop a sound muscular foundation in just about anyone.

Together, they work every muscle in your body.

 

[Feops]

Wow.

I've been lifting for.. um... a month. I got tired of the generic "tall skinny guy" build and and I've used it as an excuse to better my diet too.

Hopefully I've hit all the newbie "your body is angry at you for changing your habits" points by now. Eesh. uch:

Did a lot of research but decided to keep it simple. Three workouts a week, alternating between Squat/Bench/Dead and Squat/Press/Rows. Sit ups on days without weights. Sunday off. Will probably throw some additional cardio into the sit up days soon.

 

[Biaxident]

Wow.

I've been lifting for.. um... a month. I got tired of the generic "tall skinny guy" build and and I've used it as an excuse to better my diet too.

Hopefully I've hit all the newbie "your body is angry at you for changing your habits" points by now. Eesh. uch:

Did a lot of research but decided to keep it simple. Three workouts a week, alternating between Squat/Bench/Dead and Squat/Press/Rows. Sit ups on days without weights. Sunday off. Will probably throw some additional cardio into the sit up days soon.

Don't know how I missed this yesterday.

If you're looking to build muscle you have to give your muscles time to recover. Especially when you start out. You picked good exercises, but it sounds like you are doing them more than once a week. Once a week is more than enough for at least the first year. And you want to work hard enough that you are sore for at least two days afterward.

And don't overdo the cardio, otherwise all the work to build muscle is wasted.

 

[Hirsch63]

Biax or Wolfy would either of you care to comment on lifting for taller guys? Back when I did lift (long ago) my best friend worked out with me and he was 6' 5 inches compared to my 5' 8....so I appeared to gain mass much faster than he did..which bummed him out. Not to mention the leverage issues taller folks have to deal with...

I train folks for woodworking tasks and I have discovered over the years that tall folks will usually experience some difficulties wih swaying or exaggerated motion during work.

Thoughts that may aid the tall?

 

[Biaxident]

Biax or Wolfy would either of you care to comment on lifting for taller guys? Back when I did lift (long ago) my best friend worked out with me and he was 6' 5 inches compared to my 5' 8....so I appeared to gain mass much faster than he did..which bummed him out. Not to mention the leverage issues taller folks have to deal with...

I train folks for woodworking tasks and I have discovered over the years that tall folks will usually experience some difficulties with swaying or exaggerated motion during work.

Thoughts that may aid the tall?

When you say woodworking tasks, could you be more specific?

And when you say train them, are we talking people with developmental/physical disabilities? I ask because it appeals to the Occupational Therapy part of me.

Off the top of my head, would it be feasible to raise the work-station table level? Or perhaps add some padding so they have a more stable base to work from?

 

[wolfy]

Thoughts that may aid the tall?

I used to train with a guy who was lot taller than me.
As far as leverage issues. He took advantage of his strong hips. So he would do well with wide stance squats and sumo deadlifts. The more weight you can lift with good form the more mass you'll put on so use the lifts with the best leverage.

I'll think more... I have to go.

 

[Feops]

If you're looking to build muscle you have to give your muscles time to recover. Especially when you start out. You picked good exercises, but it sounds like you are doing them more than once a week. Once a week is more than enough for at least the first year. And you want to work hard enough that you are sore for at least two days afterward.

And don't overdo the cardio, otherwise all the work to build muscle is wasted.

Hm, I thought recovery time on most muscles was 24-48 hours? The only exercises I'm repeating are squats and curls, which are every 2-3 days. The other exercises are 4-5 days. I'm not arguing, but I'd like to understand the science behind it.

They way you phrased "first year", I guess it'll take some time to pull some real results huh? That's fine, I'm liking this tight contoured skin feel I got going on. Also it's a little bit easier to everything, doubly so for my back.

 

[wolfy]

Training frequency is recovery dependent.

It depends on how much volume you do each training session.
Also training experience matters in that you get better at recruiting muscles as you gain experience. Also of course as you get stronger you use more load.

So a lot of it comes down to training philosophy.

I personally think new guys don't know how to recruit the muscles well. Can't really use heavy weights so they can get away with higher frequency of training.

Even 3-5 times a week. But you have to vary your rep/set scheme and build up to it otherwise you'll burn out.
If you keep the volume low and training frequency high. It gives you a lot of time to learn training techniques.

I've always trained on a Upper/Lower split. Each 2 times per week.

 

[Feops]

Training frequency is recovery dependent.

It depends on how much volume you do each training session.
Also training experience matters in that you get better at recruiting muscles as you gain experience. Also of course as you get stronger you use more load.

So a lot of it comes down to training philosophy.

I personally think new guys don't know how to recruit the muscles well. Can't really use heavy weights so they can get away with higher frequency of training.

Even 3-5 times a week. But you have to vary your rep/set scheme and build up to it otherwise you'll burn out.
If you keep the volume low and training frequency high. It gives you a lot of time to learn training techniques.

I've always trained on a Upper/Lower split. Each 2 times per week.

I'm doing 3 sets of 5 reps for most of my exercises. Soreness/tension fades in about 24 hours, though I'm uncertain how true of an indicator this is in how rested the muscles are. Certain exercises I'm straining on the last rep, others I still need to tack on additional weight.

My stance on increasing weights was going to be: do (x) weight for a time, increase by a small amount. If able to do 3x5, good, if not go back to old weight and increase reps to break the pattern and switch things up. Then try the 3x5 with the upped weight again.

I'm not following any books, but I have done a lot of internet research. There's a lot of opinions floating around and I've tried to mash them into something that seemed straight forward and logical.

 

[wolfy]

I'm doing 3 sets of 5 reps for most of my exercises. Soreness/tension fades in about 24 hours, though I'm uncertain how true of an indicator this is in how rested the muscles are. Certain exercises I'm straining on the last rep, others I still need to tack on additional weight.

My stance on increasing weights was going to be: do (x) weight for a time, increase by a small amount. If able to do 3x5, good, if not go back to old weight and increase reps to break the pattern and switch things up. Then try the 3x5 with the upped weight again.

I'm not following any books, but I have done a lot of internet research. There's a lot of opinions floating around and I've tried to mash them into something that seemed straight forward and logical.

A good rule of thumb is to do a total of 24-50 reps on each exercise you use.
So for example 3 sets of 8 or 5X5 and all the other different set rep schemes.

Progression is the name of the game. You can...

Add reps
Add weight
Add sets
Decrease rest time
Increase density Increase total volume done in the same time

It gets difficult to add weight if you don't build the reps.
The most simple way is
example
3x8
1x9 2x8
2x9 1x8
3x9

and so on until you get to 3x12
then lower the reps and increase the weight.

 

[Biaxident]

Wolfy has a good regimen there.

I prefer 6-12 reps per set myself, since that range seems to build muscle mass as well as strength.

One thing I will add is, perform the exercise correctly, use proper form.

If you can't perform an exercise with proper form at the weight you're using lower it.


--------------

Using cheat reps and partials have a place, just not for someone just starting out.

It's a pet peeve I have, I see these skinny teens with ten inch upper arms trying to barbell curl half their body weight, by practically bending over backwards to fling the weight up past their waist. Or trying to bench press 135 lbs.(61kg) by arching their backs so far off the bench, the only part touching is their shoulders, then bouncing the bar off their chest so hard it leaves a raised bruise.

I usually get their attention and try to explain using proper form. But 90% of the time they say "okay" and go back to doing it the wrong way. They seldom come back after a week or so.

I watched one kid try to bench 225lbs(102kg) with two of his friends as spotters. I just finished my set, and looked over in time to see the twit tell his friends to let go with the weight fully extended, his arms immediately gave out, and he literally cracked his sternum when the bar hit it, then smashed his nose as he tried to roll the bar off himself. His spotters just stood there for a minute trying to figure out what to do. The guy behind the desk called 911, and they had the ambulance take him to the E.R.

 

[wolfy]

I usually use 3-8 reps myself. I really like 8 especially for upperbody. I almost never go over 5 on the deadlifts. I prefer to do low reps and lots of sets mostly triples.