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  1. #41
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    the OP is about psychoactives, not all drugs in general. some vaccines and general medications are psychoactives though, dextromethorphan, the stuff in robitussin for example is a dissociative that causes a distorted feel to reality at higher doses.

    Lets get back on topic people, this isn't just about illegal drugs

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  2. #42
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    The thing about recreational drug use is that there are functional users and nonfunctional users. People seem to assume they are all in the latter camp. And of those functional users, a good portion will tell you it's overall a positive in their lives. Some of those people are wrong, but a lot have perfectly logical reasons to believe it's a positive. There is no way to objectively know.

    Also, unlike medicine, recreational drugs can't take all the credit for their nonfunctional user's pain. If the drugs weren't there, many would have simply found another way to escape/block out pain/relieve boredom... and then there's the possibility that the activity would be not only self-destruction, but could directly harm others.

  3. #43
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    I'm not counting responsible, supervised medical uses (pretty clearly a good thing), so in general I'd say no, that overall psychoactive drugs are not good for people. I think that some *can* be used responsibly (ie, casual use of small amounts of alcohol), and some are unquestionably more destructive than others (methamphetamine vs. marijuana), for the most part I see recreational or "expanding the mind" drug use as a pretty bad idea.

    Alcohol's sort of a strange case... when used in excess it's as bad or worse than many restricted drugs, but obviously many people use it without trouble, and have throughout most of recorded history. But I don't think that example can be extended to other drugs.
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  4. #44
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    What's the significant difference betwen achieving a desired level of neural activity through proximal stimulii factors (drugs, excercise) versus distall sitmulii (people, scenery, prayer)? especially if you concede that it's all "mental/emotional" anyway... what's the big deal between using a chemical as a crutch vs. using personal interaction as a crutch? sounds like a bias to me.

    And what if they can't get what they need from the latter? Fuckups like myself can't be happy or properly stimulated when around people, animals, kids, whatever it is you do - all I think about is "I need to get the fuck away from these people so I can think." The only thing(s) that have let me take flight with my theories and concepts has been alcohol and weed. Excercise helps, too, but I've never been around a group of people and gotten any of the intellectual revelations I need as an INTP when around people.
    As Lateralus commented, it's an opinion. So in that sense, of course it's biased.

    I don't know if you're using social interaction and being around people as an example of one of many other 'crutches', or whether you really think I think being around people is what makes me or everyone else happy or intellectually stimulated or in a nirvana-like zen state. Because I don't think that -- being around people is low on the list for me in terms of what yields an *internal* peace and inspiration and being happy and all of that - most of it comes from within - my own perceptions.

    I don't think drugs/alcohol are necessary ingredients for people to be able to achieve things out of life and be happy. However, I think it's quite alluring. It can be a shortcut, at least in the short term.

    Is it inherently 'bad' to take shortcuts? Now that's a matter of opinion. I could see it being argued both ways. But I think it becomes a bit more alarming/sad when the user actually believes he cannot survive or be happy or <insert whatever other phrase you want> without it.

    But that's the negative slant of it -- when someone's using said drug to fill in something lacking in their life, or to distract themselves from something else looming in their life, or numb any issues they might have. I suppose if someone is extremely happy from the get-go without needing the drug, then using the drug now and then could be a good, not-so-bad, or neutral, thing.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    They're interesting, but best to be avoided. One can achieve similar effects just mentally, although for most... Let's see where we are in a few centuries.

  6. #46
    Junior Member Steve_The_Cat's Avatar
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    Drugs are bad; they killed Brendan's gorgeous avatar


  7. #47
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    We can thank the use of drugs for basically all of the art, music, cinema, prose, and many other creative endeavours in the world.

    I don't need drugs. They are simply sometimes fun and offer a different look at the world. if anything, I compare something like lsd to sex. If you'Ve never done it, you simply cannot say what would be a better substitute, can have not experiences which are not so great, but are definitely a changed person afterwards.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dga View Post
    We can thank the use of drugs for basically all of the art, music, cinema, prose, and many other creative endeavours in the world.

    I don't need drugs. They are simply sometimes fun and offer a different look at the world. if anything, I compare something like lsd to sex. If you'Ve never done it, you simply cannot say what would be a better substitute, can have not experiences which are not so great, but are definitely a changed person afterwards.
    I'm thinking that it wasn't the use of drugs which caused the creation of those things, dga. More likely it is a drug user who would prefer removal from social obligations which didn't satisfy their creative nature.

    Certainly a drug user is more prone to navel-gazing than brick-laying.

    Even if it's a nude model's navel. Hee.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    what do you mean by removal from social obligations? Musical artists, dancers, and actors perform in front of audiences. Dock Ellis pitched a no hitter on acid in a major league baseball game.

    It's not that anyone needs drugs to create

  10. #50
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anentropic IxTx View Post
    They're interesting, but best to be avoided. One can achieve similar effects just mentally, although for most... Let's see where we are in a few centuries.
    how can one know whether effects are similar without getting high? Humans have been experimenting with substances for as long as we could walk upright.

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