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  1. #1
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Default Admitting your faults

    I'm not going to ask anyone to list all their known faults like this is some virtual confession or something. What I want to know is how difficult you find admitting your faults to yourself. What are your reactions to the person/people that tells you about yourself? Do you deny? Blame? Begin criticizing the other person to take the heat of yourself?

    This isn't about blaming what's wrong with you on your nearest type opposite or all the SJs in your life, nor is this to devolve into a pity party about how horrible a person you are.

    What proactive and constructive things do you to change valid criticisms about your ways? Have successful have you been at changing?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'm not going to ask anyone to list all their known faults like this is some virtual confession or something.
    Oh, but dishing up the dirt is what's so much FUN about threads like this!!! [pout]

    What I want to know is how difficult you find admitting your faults to yourself. What are your reactions to the person/people that tells you about yourself? Do you deny? Blame? Begin criticizing the other person to take the heat of yourself?
    I would like to think I am better at this than I used to be. I always tended to be very self-critical, so usually a complaint came to me as "old news" and thus wasn't threatening enough to have to rejected; I probably was more annoying in that I would just get depressed with the news, if anything.

    But in a few areas I had more trouble, where I felt I always had to be intelligent, and creative, and understanding. Any criticism in those areas, I tended to take more personally and become argumentative.

    Getting older, for me, was helpful. After dealing with things like this long enough, the mental attitude seems to shift and it's no longer as important to defend one's ego, because the ego (in the good sense) has developed and is more stable and can take criticism without feeling mortally wounded by it.

    What proactive and constructive things do you to change valid criticisms about your ways? Have successful have you been at changing?
    Change is not easy, and actually is impossible unless you want to change (or are under a LOT of pressure to change -- where not transforming is simply not worth the price of refusal any longer).

    Listen to the criticism. Empathize with the other person, evaluate it through their eyes; look at yourself from the outside. Is my behavior ambiguous? Did they misread my intent? Or are those flaws really there? Their own complicity is irrelevant; what matters right now is examining myself and checking my own motivations and/or behavior. There is no need to "protect" myself; either they are wrong and I'm okay, or they're right and changing is GOOD for me and makes me stronger. (Either way, I "win" -- so why feel threatened?)

    Then it becomes a matter of remaining aware of things, understanding my motives, and monitoring myself, and actively choosing to change my behavior. Perhaps I need to develop a plan of some sort.

    I've changed in some very notable ways... but often I needed time and patience with myself. It's easy to change outward behavior temporarily, but not as easy to change internal feelings and motivations; and if the internal motivations do not change, maintaining the outer change gets harder and harder. The inward change, where the desires and desperations need to change, is the hardest and takes time and experience.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    I thought about this today, mainly because I had to deal with it today. Stress is a killer for me and right now I'm stressed at work with a nasty deadline that's been looming for 6 or 7 weeks. Between that stress, having my in-laws over yesterday and skipping a dose of meds / hormones, I was a basket case last night - panic attack time.

    I should have known it was coming; I've known deep down that I've been hanging on by a thread for a few days now. I do the denial thing. Pretend it's OK so no one gets worried or upset and hope it will be OK.

    I keep it in around my husband (Ironically, SJ) because I think know he doesn't understand half the time what's wrong. I swear he thinks I'm just being difficult on purpose. So I feel a tad guilty about not letting him know how I'm feeling - especially when he'll tell me how he's feeling before he tells himself. So we discussed that today as well.

    I'm also insensitive a lot of the time - his exact words to me yesterday. This is something we've discussed at length. I'm not a fan of his immediate family, at least not on some days and I'm not really good with groups of people to beging with. So I try harder with them, because I know he's right, I can be incredibly insensitive, and I know it matters to him that I'm not with his sister and BIL. Of course he'd like me to be sensitive and caring to the mailman, hence the discussion and laying down of just who gets the extra special effort.

    MB is something that's of interest to me because I need to know how other people think and why they do what they do. I've explained that to him as well; he's said to me recently "Oh you're just using that to rationalize bad behaviour" which kind of shocked me. I'm using to better understand why we don't see eye to eye on things and where problems errupt so I can not get upset with him and so I can modify my behaviour so it doesn't make him so crazy.

    This last part has worked (the discussion about the increased interest in MB). If we escalate from discussion, to disagreement, to arguement we can say "wait a second - time out - this is what I mean".

    Logic gets us through most of it.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

  4. #4
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    This is part of any 12-step program. It's a difficult process. On the one hand, we want to shirk responsibility for faults (denial). On the other hand, we want to blame ourselves for all faults (pity party). Neither of these are accurate or honest. Or helpful.

    Recognizing my fallibility, cultivating humility, and learning to forgive myself have been essential. Establishing boundaries is important--both for myself and for others.

    If I am managing stress effectively, I can objectively weight people's criticism of me, usually pretty quickly.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #5
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    As I have absolutely no faults at all I have no idea what your on about.....



    I tend to find I work to a pattern of denial, self analysis and correction. See I'm used to people trying to muscle me in terms of thinking and such. This has lead me to have quite a tough exterior, especially in terms of being stubborn and such, however most things that people say will get mulled around for a while behind the exterior walls and it is there where I check the statement for validity etc. If I find it to be valid then you can bet I'll make changes to incorporate this new information. The main failing of this system is of course I manage to annoy people whilst they deal with the outer wall, they never get to see any impact upon me, I never explain this and then a couple of weeks later I'll start quoting it back to them (by that point it's usually part of me so the irony is often lost on me).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I tend to find I work to a pattern of denial, self analysis and correction. See I'm used to people trying to muscle me in terms of thinking and such. This has lead me to have quite a tough exterior, especially in terms of being stubborn and such, however most things that people say will get mulled around for a while behind the exterior walls and it is there where I check the statement for validity etc. If I find it to be valid then you can bet I'll make changes to incorporate this new information...
    Note to Self: When Xander seems unresponsive, keep hitting him harder.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What are your reactions to the person/people that tells you about yourself? Do you deny? Blame? Begin criticizing the other person to take the heat of yourself?
    The degree to which I trust the person plays a role. If the person isn't to be trusted it adds another layer of doubt as to their motivation. I 'try' to be very honest with myself about my failings. I guess the only thing that's hard for me is if someone else spots a failing I missed. That feels like a failure on my part. It can make me step back to analyze if i missed any of my other faults. For some reason it's a big deal to me to be aware of every single fault of my own. The downside is that it can be depressing if you don't also pay attention to your strengths.

    Impersonal, constructive criticism from someone I respect and trust is what i live for. That is welcome. It gives me courage to develop my potential.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #8
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Note to Self: When Xander seems unresponsive, keep hitting him harder.
    Hmm Family philosophy
    "I may not win but I'll be damned if I'm gonna lose"

    Try waiting a little bit then hitting again. Repeat process and watch the answers change. Some find it fun. Most lack the constitution
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I guess the only thing that's hard for me is if someone else spots a failing I missed. That feels like a failure on my part. It can make me step back to analyze if i missed any of my other faults. For some reason it's a big deal to me to be aware of every single fault of my own.
    Yes... for me, I think it has something to do with integrity and having my intentions understood/known accurately. (There might be something negative in there as well -- hating the embarrassment of being fallible without realizing it, or hurting someone without realizing it. I simply want to be "perfect" I suppose, as much as possible... And it also conveniently diffuses criticism from others if I can criticize myself first. Uggh, what a gray jumbled mess of intentions...)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Change is not easy, and actually is impossible unless you want to change (or are under a LOT of pressure to change -- where not transforming is simply not worth the price of refusal any longer).

    ....

    I've changed in some very notable ways... but often I needed time and patience with myself. It's easy to change outward behavior temporarily, but not as easy to change internal feelings and motivations; and if the internal motivations do not change, maintaining the outer change gets harder and harder. The inward change, where the desires and desperations need to change, is the hardest and takes time and experience.
    If it's impossible unless you want to change, do you resent the other person for criticizing you? As if the constant reminder indicates your failure to do anything about it. Knowing you need to change is meaningless to the other person unless you manifest some changes. It's not enough to be your own worst critic, it actually makes the situation a bit sorrier because you know you have a problem and do nothing to fix it.

    It seems to me that people say they want honest criticism, but when they get it they don't accept it. They find a way to wiggle out of what they know their problems are, or say someone caused them to be the way they are, not realizing that everything is cause and effect. You can't just isolate behavior and assign blame.

    I remember I was when I was a teenager and I went with my parents to the grocery store. They got into an argument in the car before entering the store. When we got into the grocery store, my father asked my mother a question and she snapped at him and walked away. I was pushing the basket and my father turned to another man and said, "see how she treats me, all I did was ask her a simple question." The man nodded his agreement and started talking about his wife, blah blah blah.

    I always think about this when people say they want to change or don't want to admit something's their fault. It's so easy to walk into a situation, see one thing and say well you're the cause of this. You have no knowledge of preceding events, why the person has become the way they are. It's like all this stuff gets swirled and entangled together, people say you did this and they're right, but you turn right back around and say, well you did this which is why I did what I did. When will this foolishness stop? When is someone going to be mature and say, you know, I can only be responsible for what I did.

    I'd think that if you really want to change, you'd start showing change, especially if you care for the other person. I'm not saying a complete 180 is less than 24 hrs, just some results of your desire to change, and acknowledgment of your faults would prompt some things to happen faster than others.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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