User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 11

  1. #1
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    2,726

    Default The Forer effect

    I was chatting with someone (as you do) and they suggested that my "belief" in MBTI stems from something called the forer effect:

    Forer effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Forer effect (also called personal validation fallacy or the Barnum Effect after P. T. Barnum's observation that "we've got something for everyone") is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. The Forer effect can provide a partial explanation for the widespread acceptance of some pseudosciences such as astrology and fortune telling, as well as many types of personality tests.
    Personally this doesn't ring true to me, I'm not sure why, it just doesn't feel valid to me.

    I like to sound out new ideas on other people and hear what they think on a subject before I can properly identify what it is about something that either rings true or doesn't, so I would like to hear any views on this and whether anyone else agrees that the forer effect is valid when it comes to mbti or not.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    It's quite true. Many supposed personality indicators are truisms for all. Write a long description of what it means to be human, then take one paragraph for each supposed personality type, and you have yourself a bullshit system like astrology.

  3. #3
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    The forer effect is very true, and well proven. The question is whether or not descriptive typology systems suffer from the forer effect. The usual issue with things like the MBTI or the Enneagram, is that people while either complain that they rely on the forer effect, or they will complain that the definitions are too narrow to encompass everyone. There's pretty much no imbetween that satisfies everyone.

    Personally, I think the viability of claiming the MBTI relies on the forer effect depends on which author you are looking at. Some are very specific, in a way that should not lend itself to the forer effect. The problem on a bigger scale, as the people are not consistently subscribing to any one author or theory. In fact, people around here use two, almost completely opposed MB derived theories, interchangeably, often without stating which is being used. This allows a lot of cherry-picking, so when you're looking at the MBTI as one whole, comrpised of every work on it, then it is extremely vulnerable to the forer effect.

    What's needed is standardization. If there's a valuable life lesson I've gained from the MBTI, it's that sometimes canon actually is a useful thing.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #4
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    512 sp/so
    Posts
    1,821

    Default

    It's true (the Forer effect).

    Except that I could never identify with the INFP, ESFJ, etc. descriptions, even before I thought that I was an INTP, or concluded that I am an INTJ. So (to me) there is some degree of truth to the MBTI system.

  5. #5
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    And to you mbti is on par with astrology?

    I honestly can't think of a time when I have looked at someone and been able to guess their star sign, even after knowing them for awhile I still haven't accurately guessed a star sign from any description of it, and yet I have guessed a persons mbti type accurately, more than once and in less time.

    That's why it seems to valid to me, because of how accurate compared to others that it is. Even taking minor variations into account, people generally tend to fit their type description.

    Isn't the forer effect talking about something more vague? is mbti vague? am I missing something? lol

    EDIT: I didn't mean that the forer effect wasn't true, but that it wasn't true to MBTI
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    As stated, with MBTI, it depends on the type descriptions. Generally they make sense, and I approve of them. It's not like Astrology very much at all. With MBTI (or other 16-type systems), you're talking about behavioral analysis based on behavior, which if not FUBARed, is likely to make sense.

  7. #7
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    The MBTI is almost guaranteed to be more legitimate than astrology, because astrology is perscriptive rather than descriptive, and because the MBTI at least attempts to work from grounds of feasible psychology, while astrology is magic.

    However, being some degree more legitimate than astrology is not much of an accomplshment, and you can look to my first post to see how I feel about the MBTI.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  8. #8
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The forer effect is very true, and well proven. The question is whether or not descriptive typology systems suffer from the forer effect. The usual issue with things like the MBTI or the Enneagram, is that people while either complain that they rely on the forer effect, or they will complain that the definitions are too narrow to encompass everyone. There's pretty much no imbetween that satisfies everyone.

    Personally, I think the viability of claiming the MBTI relies on the forer effect depends on which author you are looking at. Some are very specific, in a way that should not lend itself to the forer effect. The problem on a bigger scale, as the people are not consistently subscribing to any one author or theory. In fact, people around here use two, almost completely opposed MB derived theories, interchangeably, often without stating which is being used. This allows a lot of cherry-picking, so when you're looking at the MBTI as one whole, comrpised of every work on it, then it is extremely vulnerable to the forer effect.

    What's needed is standardization. If there's a valuable life lesson I've gained from the MBTI, it's that sometimes canon actually is a useful thing.
    Yes, that makes sense, although there isn't really a whole lot of variation in the type descriptions I have read from different authors, there is still a basic core to each one that translates author to author no?



    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    As stated, with MBTI, it depends on the type descriptions. Generally they make sense, and I approve of them. It's not like Astrology very much at all. With MBTI (or other 16-type systems), you're talking about behavioral analysis based on behavior, which if not FUBARed, is likely to make sense.
    FUBARed?

    Fucked Up By .....A R (hang man?)
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    FUBARed?

    Fucked Up By .....A R (hang man?)
    Sheltered, are we? Beyond All Recognition ftw.

  10. #10
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    2,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Sheltered, are we? Beyond All Recognition ftw.
    We don't get much call for text speak at this nunnery.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

Similar Threads

  1. A simple way to test the "Forer effect" on typology
    By Bush Did 9/11 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-03-2014, 06:59 AM
  2. The Forer effect
    By /DG/ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-29-2011, 09:05 PM
  3. [NT] NTs the most effective liars?
    By MetalWounds in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 02-15-2009, 10:33 PM
  4. What are the different effects of reversed process pairs?
    By Magic Poriferan in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-13-2008, 06:50 PM
  5. The Bystander Effect: why people in groups suck
    By miss fortune in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 07-12-2008, 04:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO