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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    If you think they are.

    Aren't virtues subjective?
    I believe there are (near) universal virtues.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #42
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    OK. I see that now.

    Are humility, confidence, and modesty all virtues?
    Yeah, but humility and modesty are much less virtuous in the US than say, Japan.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Aren't humility, confidence, and modesty closer to being motivations, than actions?
    i wasn't implying that, what i was saying that it is important to note whether the motivation is out of humility, confidence, or modesty, or if it is simply an action, most often simply appearing so.

    for example, a truly modest person would simply make no mention of many notable qualities of themselves, change the subject away from those things, etc. however, someone who puts themselves down to induce compliments is not modest in intentions, and thus not virtuous (although as disregard points out, this is subjective)

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah, but humility and modesty are much less virtuous in the US than say, Japan.
    It does seem like Asian cultures have a preference for humility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    i wasn't implying that, what i was saying that it is important to note whether the motivation is out of humility, confidence, or modesty, or if it is simply an action, most often simply appearing so.

    for example, a truly modest person would simply make no mention of many notable qualities of themselves, change the subject away from those things, etc. however, someone who puts themselves down to induce compliments is not modest in intentions, and thus not virtuous (although as disregard points out, this is subjective)
    Illussion vs. reality. Understood.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #45
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'd say that humility and modesty are more easily defined by what is not present, not what is present.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #46
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.

  7. #47
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Indeed, but people are more transparent over time.

  8. #48
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - kurt vonnegut, mother night
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'd say that humility and modesty are more easily defined by what is not present, not what is present.
    As in the absence of arrogance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.
    Appearances can be decieving, but luckily not all apperances decieve.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #50
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    As in the absence of arrogance?
    why can't we use hubris? it's such an under-utilized term
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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