Would you be able to spot a psychopath?

[Frosty]

Everyone knows the trope of the evil mad monster psychopath- Hannibal Lector, Michael Myers...

But in reality, psychopaths who commit physically violent actions are in the minority.

It is suspected that around 1-4% of people is without a conscience. Truly without empathy. Truly... with something just ‘missing’.

The scariest thing is that these people can be very successful and leave a lot of harm in their wake... because they are good at staying hidden. They are often intelligent, and as they grow, they can learn how to use this intelligence to mimic behaviors that allow them to remain unseen/best get their way.

Identifying a Psychopath: 20 Subtle and Hidden Signs | Psychopaths and Love

So... do you think you would be able to spot a psychopath? Even when... that is the last thing hey want you to be able to do? How would you do this?

Is the idea that there are truly some people out there who are EVIL... who genuinely... do not care... does that idea bother you?

Have you ever had an experience with a psychopath? Do you believe you have ever met one- an obvious one or not- in your life... how could you tell? What happened?

Do you believe psychopaths are evil? Do you believe evil exists?

 

[Fluffywolf]

Everyone knows the trope of the evil mad monster psychopath- Hannibal Lector, Michael Myers...

But in reality, psychopaths who commit physically violent actions are in the minority.

It is suspected that around 1-4% of people is without a conscience. Truly without empathy. Truly... with something just ‘missing’.

The scariest thing is that these people can be very successful and leave a lot of harm in their wake... because they are good at staying hidden. They are often intelligent, and as they grow, they can learn how to use this intelligence to mimic behaviors that allow them to remain unseen/best get their way.

Identifying a Psychopath: 20 Subtle and Hidden Signs | Psychopaths and Love

So... do you think you would be able to spot a psychopath? Even when... that is the last thing hey want you to be able to do? How would you do this?

Is the idea that there are truly some people out there who are EVIL... who genuinely... do not care... does that idea bother you?

Have you ever had an experience with a psychopath? Do you believe you have ever met one- an obvious one or not- in your life... how could you tell? What happened?

Do you believe psychopaths are evil? Do you believe evil exists?

I think that estimate is way out of proportions. Also, it is suspected by whom exactly? What are they basing it on?


I think there are a lot of people incapable of acting on empathy or fall into the spectrum on behalf of other issues that are probably labled in that 1-4%. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced psychopaths are truely without empathy, but rather out of touch with empathy due to failing education, health and psychological care.

I believe a person is responsible for his or her deeds, but the idea of condemning people who haven't done anything wrong paints a world I don't want to be a part of.

I don't think any psychopath is evil due to their condition. That would imply they were evil as babies as well. That thought cringes me so hard. And I even wonder to what extend even a serial killer psychopath is truely evil. I mean, what is evil then?

Is being 'broken' evil? Isn't it rather sad instead. Is it not the environment surrounding them that was unable to understand and support that person before doing those acts and thus failing in preventing them the true evil?

Well, if you bring 'evil' in any discussion it automatically becomes extremely complicated.




So... do you think you would be able to spot a psychopath?
I'd be very careful with my judgement, I might suspect, but probably never claim.


Even when... that is the last thing hey want you to be able to do? How would you do this? \
If they are truely psychopaths, they wouldn't care about such semantics. Someone that cares about being ousted a psychopath clearly isn't one.

Is the idea that there are truly some people out there who are EVIL... who genuinely... do not care... does that idea bother you?
I do not believe not caring automatically means evil. It entirely depends on what caused them to not care. Maybe they were abused as children, closed off at an early age. Maybe they don't care, because they simply don't know how to care. Is it them that is evil, or the circumstances that made them evil?

Have you ever had an experience with a psychopath? Do you believe you have ever met one- an obvious one or not- in your life... how could you tell? What happened?


Do you believe psychopaths are evil? Do you believe evil exists?
I believe evil exists, but I can't think of psychopaths as evil. Rather, I find people who choose to do the wrong things while in full control of their faculties and with the intellect to support it well to be evil. A psychopath isn't evil, but sick.



I am gonna be unfair to you and way out of proportions here, so don't freak out too quick here. But I have a feeling that you have reached a pretty harsh and severe judgement on an illness and branded it as evil yourself. I'd ask you to question the goodness inside of yourself first before condemning others for being evil.
But like I said, I am being unfair. Your view is understandable, you wish to minimize victims and your intentions are pure. How well do you understand the bigger picture though. Don't you think it would be good to try and help these people instead of shunning them and saying they are intrinsically evil and beyond redemption.

 

[Population: 1]

The eyes. Look at any mug shot of serial killers, violent gang members etc. Dead cold eyes. You can’t hide that void that lurks in their eyes.

It bothers me and these people should be put down like rabid dogs. You can’t reform a lack of a conscience. Evil definitely exists and these people are examples.

 

[Fluffywolf]

The eyes. Look at any mug shot of serial killers, violent gang members etc. Dead cold eyes. You can’t hide that void that lurks in their eyes.

It bothers me and these people should be put down like rabid dogs. You can’t reform a lack of a conscience. Evil definitely exists and these people are examples.

This is just a thought. And again being a bit unfair. But I just want to bring some perspective here.




What if someone on the psychopathic spectrum reads your post. A person that hasn't hurt a soul in his life, however this person clearly has issues relating to people and reaching morals and values through normal ways.
Your post might be the one thing that sets him over the edge. Taking your post for the truth, beginning to realize that he has no place in this world whatsoever and that no one will ever consider him to be a valuable human being and member of society. Believing everyone in the world is against him and finally letting go of whatever restraint he still had.

Will you take responsibility if your post is what causes him to act heinously?

 

[Frosty]

I think that estimate is way out of proportions. Also, it is suspected by whom exactly? What are they basing it on?


I think there are a lot of people incapable of acting on empathy or fall into the spectrum on behalf of other issues that are probably labled in that 1-4%. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced psychopaths are truely without empathy, but rather out of touch with empathy due to failing education, health and psychological care.

I believe a person is responsible for his or her deeds, but the idea of condemning people who haven't done anything wrong paints a world I don't want to be a part of.

I don't think any psychopath is evil due to their condition. That would imply they were evil as babies as well. That thought cringes me so hard. And I even wonder to what extend even a serial killer psychopath is truely evil. I mean, what is evil then?

Is being 'broken' evil? Isn't it rather sad instead. Is it not the environment surrounding them that was unable to understand and support that person before doing those acts and thus failing in preventing them the true evil?

Well, if you bring 'evil' in any discussion it automatically becomes extremely complicated.




So... do you think you would be able to spot a psychopath?
I'd be very careful with my judgement, I might suspect, but probably never claim.


Even when... that is the last thing hey want you to be able to do? How would you do this? \
If they are truely psychopaths, they wouldn't care about such semantics. Someone that cares about being ousted a psychopath clearly isn't one.

Is the idea that there are truly some people out there who are EVIL... who genuinely... do not care... does that idea bother you?
I do not believe not caring automatically means evil. It entirely depends on what caused them to not care. Maybe they were abused as children, closed off at an early age. Maybe they don't care, because they simply don't know how to care. Is it them that is evil, or the circumstances that made them evil?

Have you ever had an experience with a psychopath? Do you believe you have ever met one- an obvious one or not- in your life... how could you tell? What happened?


Do you believe psychopaths are evil? Do you believe evil exists?
I believe evil exists, but I can't think of psychopaths as evil. Rather, I find people who choose to do the wrong things while in full control of their faculties and with the intellect to support it well to be evil. A psychopath isn't evil, but sick.



I am gonna be unfair to you and way out of proportions here, so don't freak out too quick here. But I have a feeling that you have reached a pretty harsh and severe judgement on an illness and branded it as evil yourself. I'd ask you to question the goodness inside of yourself first before condemning others for being evil.
But like I said, I am being unfair. Your view is understandable, you wish to minimize victims and your intentions are pure. How well do you understand the bigger picture though. Don't you think it would be good to try and help these people instead of shunning them and saying they are intrinsically evil and beyond redemption.

I think 99% of people- no matter how hard they are hurting- have an end point that doesnt reach true manipulative cruelty.

I dont like the idea that there is a subset of people where- they truly are incapable of feeling any, empathy, remorse, or... shared humanity with another person.

I definitely believe that antisocial personality disorder is a thing. And I also believe its a sickness.

But i ALSO believe when I read that when this sickness is attempted to be treated- it generally fails. Because for the most part... you just cannot grow a conscience.

I do not necessarily condemn people who were born like this and are genuinely functional in real life- who DONT go out of their way to deliberately hurt others. I believe there is potentially a subset in the ‘antisocial personaliry disorder’ population who do try to lead relatively functional and harmless lives.

But I also beliebe that- those who can skin a puppy or rape multiple women. Those who have the capacity to do things like that- I believe they are different. They are not in my 99% of people- some who might be damaged. They are in their own category. I believe generally- there are people who CAN and people who CANT do thingd like that. That a conscience in generally separates the two groups.

Antisocial Personality Disorder Statistics

I think it would be excellent if these people could be helped. But, like many personality disorders- it generally is very very hard to get someone to admit they have a problem. Because, from what Ive read, these people dont generally see their condition as an issue.

There are many reasons they would hide in plain sight. If someone wanted to con you out of money for a long time- they wouldnt out-right tell you. They knoe that that would not work. If someone wanted to continuously trick you- to get something they wanted- money, control, power- they arent going to sound the alarms. They are going to make you think there ARE no alarms. All the while twisting their interactions with you in a way that makes YOU question your own perceptions about needing to sound them.

There are people out there who are cruel. Who manipulate. They may be sick. Antisocial personality disorder IS a disorder. But its also been guessed that the perosn with this disorder causes 5-20 times as much pain in their lifetime as someone without.

And this isnt the case with a different mental illness whete someone doesnt know what they are doing. In a large body, these people know what they are doinng at all times.

14 Odd Antisocial Personality Disorder Statistics | HRFnd

 

[Population: 1]

This is just a thought. And again being a bit unfair. But I just want to bring some perspective here.




What if someone on the psychopathic spectrum reads your post. A person that hasn't hurt a soul in his life, however this person clearly has issues relating to people and reaching morals and values through normal ways.
Your post might be the one thing that sets him over the edge. Taking your post for the truth, beginning to realize that he has no place in this world whatsoever and that no one will ever consider him to be a valuable human being and member of society. Believing everyone in the world is against him and finally letting go of whatever restraint he still had.

Will you take responsibility if your post is what causes him to act heinously?

No. I said serial killers and gangster murderers not some random guy somewhere. And even if someone flew off the handle because of some strangers opinion I’d have to say almost anything would have set them off. It’s like that argument that D&D is evil and makes people lose their sense of reality. D&D is a game not a destroyer of minds. Those people had a tentative grasp on reality to begin with.

 

[Fluffywolf]

No. I said serial killers and gangster murderers not some random guy somewhere. And even if someone flew off the handle because of some strangers opinion I’d have to say almost anything would have set them off. It’s like that argument that D&D is evil and makes people lose their sense of reality. D&D is a game not a destroyer of minds. Those people had a tentative grasp on reality to begin with.

You based your post on "a look in a person's eyes" with scary conviction and said nothing about the crimes they have committed. I'm sure you can understand my confusion.

 

[magpie]

This reminds me of comments on articles about crimes. I often see the majority of the comments calling for the death and/or torture of the criminals. Hoping they get raped, saying they're less than human, etc. The comments are full of moral posturing and judgement. There is no dignity or goodness in retributive hatred because it does nothing to make the world a better place. I'm not writing this to condemn the OP. These are just my thoughts on the matter in a general sense.

Are we going to fight hatred with hatred and respond to dehumanization with dehumanization? It's easy to help a victim. It's harder to help a psychopath. Both deserve help. If you help a psychopath recover, you are doing something very powerful, because it means that all that capacity for evil has been transformed into a capacity for good, and if there is a lot of evil, there is the potential there for so much good. It just needs to be transformed.

Imagine if you could go into a prison and heal people. Heal their lives. Help them understand their crimes. Help them feel remorse, help them to change. Is there a more direct, powerful, and potent way to increase the amount of good in the world than that? I don't think so. Because if something very evil is redeemed and becomes something good, you've technically gotten rid of more evil and more potential for evil, than helping a good person become better. Though obviously, everyone deserves help, and the world benefits the most from everyone being helped. The tendency is to exclude the "evil" people, as nonsensical as that is, based off some uppity moral judgement of "deserve," which ironically only comes from a place of hatred and lack of empathy.

A lot of psychopathy in our society is institutional. "Real" psychopathy is relatively rare, but a lot of the systems we have in place are by nature psychopathic, and the people who uphold them become psychopathic by association. They are just as much victims of the system as anyone else, perhaps even moreso than the people who are suffering under the system in question, because what they've lost to uphold it is their humanity. There is nothing worse that can be lost than that.

I don't believe that anyone is irredeemable. I don't believe anyone doesn't have feelings. I don't believe anyone should be viewed as not fully human. Obviously if you are being abused, then self preservation is the most important thing, not consideration of the abuser's feelings. I think though that some people can only make sense of the world if they can cast people as black and white. Because it makes it easier to understand why bad things happen that way. Why people do horrific shit. Why tenants of society upheld as good and true can cause so much harm or be so wrong. But in reality, there are so many shades of grey on every level. We live in the shadow of many weighty complexities.

 

[magpie]

I question the tendency to diagnose people who commit heinous acts. It seems to serve no purpose other than to highlight hypocrisy. If you are anti mental illness stigma, why stigmatize psychopathy, a "real disorder"? And if you want people not to think people with mental illnesses are dangerous criminals who should be feared, contained, and controlled, why label murderers and rapists as mentally ill?

 

[Population: 1]

You based your post on "a look in a person's eyes" with scary conviction and said nothing about the crimes they have committed. I'm sure you can understand my confusion.

Go look at mug shots of killers. Not shop lifters. Repeat murderers. They all have that thousand yard stare. They look right through you. Besides, I’m not judge, jury or executioner in the land so no need to worry. If I was repeat murderers serial killers would all be dead, not breathing the same air as the rest of us. Charles Manson wouldn’t have been sitting and spouting his insane bullshit for years after inspiring his brain dead minions to kill. He’d be quite dead. I have no sympathy for people who can kill others like they’re changing a lightbulb. They’re a threat to humanity.

 

[magpie]

I think the kneejerk hatred and dehumanization of psychopaths is a fear response. It comes from the need to protect oneself. It's a scary world out there and it's scary to think of being hurt and taken advantage of. Only someone who isn't afraid of being hurt and who has nothing to lose would be able to try and help a hurtful person, and that's okay. No one is required to help anybody. But it is much better, in my opinion, to view people and the world in shades of grey. It's much healthier for everyone. That doesn't mean letting people walk all over you. We all have boundaries that others need to respect and it is good and okay to have a line set in stone you won't under any circumstances let others cross. But I don't believe in condemning people in theory, and in having such a defensive worldview that it actually becomes harmfully offensive.

 

[Frosty]

I question the tendency to diagnose people who commit heinous acts. It seems to serve no purpose other than to highlight hypocrisy. If you are anti mental illness stigma, why stigmatize psychopathy, a "real disorder"? And if you want people not to think people with mental illnesses are dangerous criminals who should be feared, contained, and controlled, why label murderers and rapists as mentally ill?

Because I believe that psychopathy is a different kind of thing. If someone, knowingly and repeatedly hurts another person for the pleasure of it- its hardly a mental illness but a choice.

I dont condemn all paychopaths necessarily. I think some level of it can be- beneficial to society. Surgeons probably wouldnt be able to perform surgery as precisely and efficiently as they do if they werent able to disconnect temporarily with the humanity of the person in front of them. CEOs probably would have a harder time making high consequence decisions if they didnt have some sense of grandiosity.


But no. Psychopaths who commit crimes- with a clear head and a fair understanding of the consequences- are different than the schizophrenic who does so out of legitimate confusion.

Ive read- and hopefully will find the source- that generally, rehabilitative therapy rarely works on psychopaths. Generally, all therapy does for that subset of people is teach them how to better understand human emotions so that they can better mimic and manipulate. It, if anything, causes them to be better able to continue doing whatever they were doing before- that GOT them there- because now they can understand the reactions of the disgust of people around them.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think it would be excellent if these people could be helped. But, like many personality disorders- it generally is very very hard to get someone to admit they have a problem. Because, from what Ive read, these people dont generally see their condition as an issue.


There are people out there who are cruel. Who manipulate. They may be sick. Antisocial personality disorder IS a disorder. But its also been guessed that the perosn with this disorder causes 5-20 times as much pain in their lifetime as someone without.

And this isnt the case with a different mental illness whete someone doesnt know what they are doing. In a large body, these people know what they are doinng at all times.

Because it might be very hard to get someone to admit they're wrong is no grounds for absolute condemnation. They don't generally see their condition as an issue? Have they never though? Was there a time in their lives where they could have been reached, had they been treated differently/humanely, instead of most likely as an outsider or a freak? Is this cause of their condition or conditioning?

People who have done heinous acts should be held accountable for their actions, of course. But let's not try and empyricize factors of pain caused, there is nothing useful to be gained there in any form of discussion.

I'm not saying they aren't aware of what they are doing. I'm just saying that if the whole world treated me as someone that isn't human. Something less than human. I'd be pretty fucked up as well. I'd be more interested in finding out in what happened in that persons life and if there were moments they could've been recognized and helped.

If today science learns to accurately say without a shadow of a doubt who is and isn't a psychopath, what will you do? Will you openly condemn them all based only on that fact? What if they can even test babies and know if they are going to be psychopaths or not, what do you believe should be done to them?

Who exactly is lacking empathy again?

What I'm saying is, are you truely condemning psychopaths for being psychopaths, or are you trying to condemn criminals who've done heinous crimes, and just use the psychopath lable for convenience.

 

[Frosty]

Because it might be very hard to get someone to admit they're wrong is no grounds for absolute condemnation. They don't generally see their condition as an issue? Have they never though? Was there a time in their lives where they could have been reached, had they been treated differently/humanely, instead of most likely as an outsider or a freak? Is this cause of their condition or conditioning?

People who have done heinous acts should be held accountable for their actions, of course. But let's not try and empyricize factors of pain caused, there is nothing useful to be gained there in any form of discussion.

I'm not saying they aren't aware of what they are doing. I'm just saying that if the whole world treated me as someone that isn't human. Something less than human. I'd be pretty fucked up as well. I'd be more interested in finding out in what happened in that persons life and if there were moments they could've been recognized and helped.

If today science learns to accurately say without a shadow of a doubt who is and isn't a psychopath, what will you do? Will you openly condemn them all based only on that fact? What if they can even test babies and know if they are going to be psychopaths or not, what do you believe should be done to them?

Who exactly is lacking empathy again?

What I'm saying is, are you truely condemning psychopaths for being psychopaths, or are you trying to condemn criminals who've done heinous crimes, and just use the psychopath lable for convenience.

I really dont think at any point I said anything about- being out to get these people. Condemning them. I generally try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt- even long after it can pain me to do that.

But these people cause pain. And for a lot of them- they genuinely do not care that they are doing this. They can hurt a person as easy as they can swat a fly on their hand. And that makes them people- that makes people who are like that- people that I believe people need to be cautious of. People that people need to understand exist. People who are out there who genuinely- perhaps through no fault of their own- see you are prey.

There are many studies I have read that have to do with treating conduct disorders in children. That at that age- with the right interventions- things can be done to effectively teach children- REACH children- who might have otherwise developed differently.

So I wish this was possible- that programs like this could reach EVERYONE who might otherwise develop antisocial personality disorder- yes- yes I do. But do they?

Probably not. And this creates the problem I am writing about today. People who- are in this situation. This situation where they can and will knowingly hurt others. I really dont think there is anything wrong with being able to see- to look at someome- and say- this person is hurting me. I need to be careful around this person.

You can still have empathy for them without becoming a victim yourself.



Contrary to popular belief, psychopaths are not considered to be mentally ill. The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), released by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) in 2013, lists psychopathy under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorders (ASPD).

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Key traits of the psychopath include:

A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior
Psychopathy is a personality disorder that is exhibited by people who employ a combination of charm, manipulation, intimidation, and sometimes violence to control others, in order to satisfy their own selfish desires. It is estimated that approximately 1 percent of the adult male population in the U.S. are psychopaths (1).Men are more likely than women to be psychopaths.

Generally speaking, psychopaths are glib and charming and they use these attributes to manipulate others into trusting and believing in them. Because of their strong interpersonal skills, most psychopaths can present themselves quite favorably on a first impression and many function successfully in society. However, as explained by psychologist Dr. Paul Babiak and his colleagues, a number of the attitudes and behaviors common to psychopaths are distinctly predatory in nature and they tend to view others as either competitive predators or prey (2).

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When psychopaths view others as prey, their lack of feeling and bonding to others allows them to have unusual clarity in observing the behavior of their intended victims. Moreover, they do not become encumbered by theanxieties and emotions that normal people experience in interpersonal encounters (3).

A detailed examination of psychopathy and its powerful link to serial homicide is presented in a separate article here: How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath | Psychology Today

Can psychopathy be cured? According to mental health experts, the short answer to this question is no. Dr. Nigel Blackwood, a leading Forensic Psychiatrist at King’s College London, has stated that adult psychopaths can be treated or managed but not cured (4).

Blackwood explains that psychopaths do not fear the pain of punishment and they are not bothered by social stigmatization. Psychopaths are indifferent to the expectations of society and reject its condemnation of their criminal behavior. According to Blackwood and others, callous and unemotional psychopaths simply do not respond to punishment the way that normal people do. Consequently, adult psychopaths in prison are much harder to reform or rehabilitate than other criminals with milder or no antisocial personality disorders (5).

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Because they do not respond in a normal fashion to punishment, reward-based treatment seems to work best with psychopaths. Such strategies have been used effectively to mange psychopaths in institutional settings.

In reward-based treatment, psychopathic prisoners are given small privileges such as watching television, playing games or other perks in exchange for good behavior. For example, reward-based treatment has been utilized effectively with convicted serial killer and psychopath Dennis Rader (known as “Bind, Torture, Kill” or BTK) at the El Dorado Correctional Facility in Kansas.

Rader has been a model prisoner since his incarceration in 2005. Although he remains in solitary confinement twenty-three hours per day, he has received increasing privileges, including foods he likes, in exchange for his good behavior. He has told me in personal correspondence while researching my new book that he looks forward to his little rewards. I believe that the obsessive, compulsive nature of many psychopaths such as Rader make a reward-based system particularly effective.

Their behavior remains good or even improves as they become increasingly fixated on their rewards. Despite the practical utility of reward-based treatments, however, the fact remains that there is no known cure for psychopathy. In other words, it can be managed quite effectively but not cured.

 

[magpie]

Because I believe that psychopathy is a different kind of thing. If someone, knowingly and repeatedly hurts another person for the pleasure of it- its hardly a mental illness but a choice.

I dont condemn all paychopaths necessarily. I think some level of it can be- beneficial to society. Surgeons probably wouldnt be able to perform surgery as precisely and efficiently as they do if they werent able to disconnect temporarily with the humanity of the person in front of them. CEOs probably would have a harder time making high consequence decisions if they didnt have some sense of grandiosity.


But no. Psychopaths who commit crimes- with a clear head and a fair understanding of the consequences- are different than the schizophrenic who does so out of legitimate confusion.

Ive read- and hopefully will find the source- that generally, rehabilitative therapy rarely works on psychopaths. Generally, all therapy does for that subset of people is teach them how to better understand human emotions so that they can better mimic and manipulate. It, if anything, causes them to be better able to continue doing whatever they were doing before- that GOT them there- because now they can understand the reactions of the disgust of people around them.

Why call it antisocial personality disorder then? Is that not considering it a mental illness? And isn't the term psychopath a diagnosis? Also, why quote the DSM in this thread if you aren't going by the DSM?

What would you suggest we do about psychopaths then, if they can't be helped or changed? Should we keep a watch for anyone displaying the signs, round them all up, and kill them to cleanse the world of their evil?

The ideology that asserts that there can be something inherently wrong or broken about someone which can never be fixed - the idea that someone's essence is "evil" - is an abusive and psychopathic ideology. The idea of inherent wrongness - the concept of an "illness" of personality - is inherently damaging because it condemns while offering no repentance to the condemned. In these ways, the ideology of psychiatry that asserts that can in itself be called psychopathic.

Also, where can we draw an objective line, with certainty, between a psychopath who commits murder and a schizophrenic who commits murder? Not in theory, but in practice. How do you know the schizophrenic isn't aware that his actions are wrong? How do you know the psychopath is? And what, beyond general lists of traits, which are subjectively judged, is a diagnosis based off of? What one therapist diagnoses as bipolar, for example, another might diagnose as depression. What one therapist diagnoses as schizophrenia, another might diagnose as psychopathy. Who is right, how can you tell, and what makes their subjective judgement more right or correct? Nothing in the arena of the human mind is black and white and there is no utility, no use, in this sort of ideology except hurting people and making the world a worse place. It's psychiatry that is making you condemn others right now in this way. That is filtering your vision, that is over-simplifying your view of others, because you've come to believe people can be encapsulated in a checklist of symptoms. They can't. You can't.

 

[Frosty]

Why call it antisocial personality disorder then? Is that not considering it a mental illness? And isn't the term psychopath a diagnosis? Also, why quote the DSM in this thread if you aren't going by the DSM?

What would you suggest we do about psychopaths then, if they can't be helped or changed? Should we keep a watch for anyone displaying the signs, round them all up, and kill them to cleanse the world of their evil?

The ideology that asserts that there can be something inherently wrong or broken about someone which can never be fixed - the idea that someone's essence is "evil" - is an abusive and psychopathic ideology. The idea of inherent wrongness - the concept of an "illness" of personality - is inherently damaging because it condemns while offering no repentance to the condemned. In these ways, the ideology of psychiatry that asserts that can in itself be called psychopathic.

Also, where can we draw an objective line, with certainty, between a psychopath who commits murder and a schizophrenic who commits murder? Not in theory, but in practice. How do you know the schizophrenic isn't aware that his actions are wrong? How do you know the psychopath is? And what, beyond general lists of traits, which are subjectively judged, is a diagnosis based off of? What one therapist diagnoses as bipolar, for example, another might diagnose as depression. What one therapist diagnoses as schizophrenia, another might diagnose as psychopathy. Who is right, how can you tell, and what makes their subjective judgement more right or correct? Nothing in the arena of the human mind is black and white and there is no utility, no use, in this sort of ideology except hurting people and making the world a worse place. It's psychiatry that is making you condemn others right now in this way. That is filtering your vision, that is over-simplifying your view of others, because you've come to believe people can be encapsulated in a checklist of symptoms. They can't. You can't.

I Wish people would stop personally attacking me for making a thread where I have a difference of opinion from others in the thread.

I was excited to discuss this but after having my personal life thrown in for shits and giggles- or to make a point- and being accused of having a lack of empathy and all this other crap- Im done.

You win.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

Psychopathy and Evilness makes me think of free will. I think it sort of exists, but we don't ahve control over everything. I heard people with ASPD experience trauma that makes them feel like they can't rely on anyone but themself.

I think they can have morals, one I knew irl did. But maybe he was faking idk. They can at least know that murdering someone will likely get them in jail.

I don't believe in evil and think everyone, even criminals want to do what it takes to survive, even if it's misguided and hurts others. However I do think we should prevent people who have committed crimes from doing it again.

 

[Riva]

Normal ones (who are visibly narcissistic) yes.

Quiet ones, no.

 

[chickpea]

i am hyper-vigilant about this sort of things, so i'd like to think yes and then probably accusing non-psychopaths of being psychopaths too lol. one of my biggest strengths is being able to pick up on that sort of ~bad vibes~ from people.

 

[Wunjo]

No one without a license thinks about "treating" any martyr or a doormat and say that person is "good" but everyone argues whether psychopaths can be treated or not and keep underlining the fact that they are "evil".

Social contract is surely an interesting thing.