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  1. #41
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    It depends on what kind of a T.
    STs are different than NTs.
    Then why did they generalize to all Ts?

    And even so, if statistics show more Fs, does that mean that both NFs and SFs are similar in this way, while NTs and STs are not?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #42
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Then why did they generalize to all Ts?

    And even so, if statistics show more Fs, does that mean that both NFs and SFs are similar in this way, while NTs and STs are not?
    Show me the statistics.

  3. #43
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Show me the statistics.
    Uhh, the ones previously mentioned in this thread?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #44
    Member katerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    Aren't the 2nd and 4th points contradicting each other?
    Bipolar patients are commonly INxPs , and then bipolar patients are significantly more extroverted?
    Well, both types of patients may score on the introverted side of the scale but bipolar patients may just tend to score closer to the middle while depressed patients tend to score nearer the introverted extreme.

  5. #45
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    schizophrenia is most relevant to introverts. bipolar seems to be a split between the first two functions but take that with a grain of salt.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerp View Post
    There's a similar topic on another forum, and this is what I posted there:

    I'm actually writing a research paper for a psychology class now and in my review of past research I've found some studies on correlations between mental illness and MBTI. All of these studies were published in professional, peer-reviewed journals:


    *A 1994 found that those most at risk for suicidal ideation and behaviors are IxxP females, ISFx males, INxP males, and ENxJ males (BTW, their hypothesis was that INFPs would be most at risk for suicide)

    *A 1996 study found that depressed patients were more comonly ISxPs, biploar patients were more commonly INxPs, and social phobia patients were usually IxxJ

    *A 1997 study found that ITs are overly rigid, ISs are obsessive, and IFs are depressive

    *A 1999 study found that bipolar patients are signficantly more extroverted and less judging than unipolar depressed patients (I've also seen a bunch of studies using the Big Five Personality Model that also found bipolar patients are more extroverted than depressed patients)

    *A 2002 study found that depression patients were significantly more introverted, sensing, feeling, and perceiving; the overrepresented types are ISFPs and INFPs; and male ISFPs in particular are the most overrepresented in depression
    To Haphazard -
    Nowhere here does it say Ts are prone to depression.
    You really must stop making broad statements that have no basis in fact.
    I know you're an INTJ and all, but we're all told that at one point or another,
    and today it's your turn.

  7. #47
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    To Haphazard -
    Nowhere here does it say Ts are prone to depression.
    You really must stop making broad statements that have no basis in fact.
    I know you're an INTJ and all, but we're all told that at one point or another,
    and today it's your turn.

    WHAT I WAS WONDERING.

    Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?

    That's all I'm asking, and that's all I've been asking. Am I not allowed to wonder why people have the opinions that they do when they don't appear to have basis in reality?

    Jeez.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    WHAT I WAS WONDERING.

    Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?

    That's all I'm asking. Am I not allowed to wonder why people have the opinions that they do, when they don't appear to have basis in reality?

    Jeez.
    Sorry.
    Perhaps you should go ask the people in that other thread.
    I would have to go read and study every post in order to answer your question and, though I'd like to, I don't have the time right now. I did not read the thread closely. My impression was that the thread was about one specific person or a couple, and the depressed person was an INTx, but as I said, I only skimmed it.
    Maybe I can read it through later on tonight.

  9. #49
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerp View Post
    Well, both types of patients may score on the introverted side of the scale but bipolar patients may just tend to score closer to the middle while depressed patients tend to score nearer the introverted extreme.

    That makes sense, thanks

  10. #50
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Was why it seemed like in that one thread that I cited, people seemed to link T with depression, while nothing here does that. Why is it that the perception of these people is so different than what is shown here?
    post 1
    The question is
    Are strong "Thinkers" prone to being a risk to themselves?
    Emotionally and mentally speaking, that is.

    post 2
    In general, I don't think so. But STJs seem rather defenseless against strong emotions. They can do serious damage in short order.

    (Notice the OP is not about depression. We have no way of knowing what he means concerning STJs but it sounds as though he is thinking of a personal experience. We don't have the definition of "strong emotions" That probably includes anger.)
    post 3
    On one site I read that ISTJs are prone to depression and I could see that.

    (An unquoted, unknown source says ISTJs are prone to depression.)
    post 9
    If they haven't developed much of a feeling function then I would say yes.

    (This might apply to a small number of people who are not maturing normally.)
    post 11
    A healthy strong thinker will acknowledge their feeling side. An unhealthy strong thinker won't. If you don't acknowledge your feeling side, you'll definitely be a risk to yourself.

    (Ok answer but we still don't know the definition of "risk to yourself".)
    posts 17 & 18
    (a tangent into repressed memories)
    post 24
    I don't know if you know what to do with them or not, I just notice the results. Confusion, depression and/or rage.

    (FINALLY the answer to post # 2. An STJ who experienced those feelings. Not enough information though to come to an Ni conclusion about anything.)
    post 25
    There is actually quite a lot of that, yes.

    (written by an ISTJ, she acknowledges the accuracy, in her own experience, of the statement in post #2)
    post 28
    The effects of lack of feeling can express themselves in a variety of ways. This is how I am coming at it though:

    Say you group people into four categories (like Jung): Thinkers, Feelers, Intuitives, and Sensors. I would say that the Feelers are the most likely to have a satisfying life. What is more is that each of the other three groups will increase their satisfaction if they can sufficiently develop their feeling function. This is because Man is inherently a social creature. People in general get a lot of satisfaction from their relationships and from living according to their values. Feelers are the most aware of this, and that is why I'd say they are most likely to have a satisfying life.

    The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc.... However it manifests itself though, it won't be healthy. Overall I think it's important for everyone to develop their feeling function.

    (A response to a question about the lack of developed feeling function, i.e. strong thinkers, as in the OP. Notice that this post is not about, nor was the OP about depression only, but rather people being a "risk" to themselves. Also this post is about the feeling function - Fe and Fi.)
    post 31
    ...
    Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser
    The flip side is that someone without a developed feeling function will become increasingly more dissatisfied with their life over time. This can manifest in a variety of ways anger, depression, addiction, materialism, etc....


    I think this is at least as true for someone with an overly developed Feeling function. The only difference is, they don't even know why they are so dissatisfied
    (A response to post 28 suggesting that over developed feeling can be just as problematic as underdeveloped feeling.)
    post 32
    (discusses job satisfaction is higher for F type careers)
    post 34
    I don't think F types are more likely to lead a more satisfying life.

    According to Stoicism and Buddhism too I guess, T's would be more likely to lead the optimal life. It's about separating and detaching ourselves from desire. Freedom from negative emotion by the embracement of reason. I agree with some of Stoicism.

    (Disagrees with the premise of post 28. Says Ts have a more satisfying life.)
    post 36
    ...
    The thing about a strong T preference is that it does distance you from people and relationships which can act as a stabilizing point preventing someone from going out of balance. Without this equalizer where emotion is sorta shared and discharged among a group of people or between a couple close friends frequently, there is a situation where the T doesn't necessarily have what he needs to ground out that energy.

    (Discusses the possible reasons why a strong T thinker could become a risk to themselves.)
    post 37
    (Suggests that trying to develop other traits unnaturally is counterproductive and won't work.)
    post 38
    I am saying that everyone should have a developed feeling function. I'm not saying that it should guide every decision.

    (Counters post 37)
    ************************************************** ***********************
    No one conclusively proved that Ts are more prone to depression than Fs.
    There were no studies or statistics discussed.
    All there was was the personal experience of 2 people that STJ might be prone to be a "risk", and one ISTJ who said she read one site that said that ISTJs are prone to depression.
    I personally know 2 ISTJs and neither have ever been depressed in the 20 years I have known them.

    Then you came over here and asked if anyone had ever met a depressed ESTJ and I answered you telling you no, and that it is very unlikely to happen. That was based on my 18 yeras worth of personal study of MBTT. Then bluemonday agreed with me.

    Then you came and said
    "
    Well, this seems to directly oppose what was said in another thread about T types... About them being unhappy, or something.

    ESTJ is dominant T. How does this work? "

    Your first question was about depression but your follow up was merely about unhappiness which is not the same thing.
    You followed up again with citing the other thread saying that they concluded that Ts are unhappy.
    I stated that not all T types are prone to depression.
    You follow up by saying that the other thread said that all Ts are prone to depression.

    Look, I can see you're young. It's not your fault, but if you're going to allow what you read to upset you, you should read it more carefully first and make sure you understand fully what is being said. In my opinion, no one in the other thread made a convincing case that all Ts are prone to depression. The thread wasn't even about depression, and besides unhappiness and depression are not the same thing. Unhappiness can be fixed by a visit to an amusement park, depression cannot.

    You say that the other thread generalized that all Ts are prone to depression, but it does not. The only type that was stated to be prone to depression was ISTJ, and I find that hard to believe, as I said a little bit ago.

    But here's the thing. Over in the other thread, you commented that the thread was making you depressed. Why? And don't answer me in typical INTJ fashion. I want at least 5 sentences explaining why in the world it matters to you that ESTJs - or all Ts - might be prone to depression (which they are not). Okay?



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