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  1. #1
    Ambience seeker burningranger's Avatar
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    Default Jung and the "deeper" shadow, nightmares and ghosts

    Every now and again I come back to Jung. I never really read anything of his in-depth, because I like things fast and condensed... I prefer to put some video of his on, or read a few quotes and meditate on the overall implications of what he says.....that being said he's one of the few characters in history that I truly thoroughly respect and am fascinated by.

    I've been searching online for what he has/had to say about the shadow. Most of the content written seems to be on what I would call the basic shadow...that is, just the sides of human expression one was prevented from expressing as a kid in scoiety...that go on to create most of our personal problems. Things we don't like seeing in ourselvses and condemn in others, but that work on a pretty run-of-the-mill neurosis level of our lives as humans. Anger, sexual repression, phobias.

    But I have yet to find something of his, about the "deeper" side of the shadow. Like nightmares and their origin, past lives repressed aspects, and experiences of what we call demons or other such, less vanilla sort of phenomena. Now, I don't know what if anything he wrote on this, but I'm curious to know what was his stance and belief on the origin of many of these ideas. Anything that lies OUTSIDE of what has a rational explanation in modern psychology. I don't even know what is the consesus agreement on many of these ideas in modern psychology. From what I've experienced I think they are just ridiculed or always attributed to an unhealthy mind. I don't see modern psychology as being able to consider the existence of something as basic as possibility that we have many incarnations....so anything that would be ridiculed by modern science, would probably fall under that category as well for modern psychology.

    Does anyone here know or could point me to a resource where he might have talked about these things? Did he believe in past lives? To what extent did he feel the individual was responsible not only for the vanilla side of the shadow...but also these darker manifestations? Did he have his own explanation to any of these things I described? Or would he not include these in the shadow or under the scope of his psychology?

    I've been having some pretty weird nigthmares and have in the past seen some weird shit and had experiences in life which modern psychology doesn't seem to account for. Like out of body experiences etc I personally think many of the most complicated psychological "problems" are very very misunderstood. Like schyzophrenia for example. Because most people today have a very limited view of the world/consciousness and our psyche to be able to consider and accomodate other explanations than - "there is something wrong with this person's mind" medicate the bastard and invalidate his inner experience because I doesn't match what I know of the world.

    If anyone have any answers regarding Jung's stance on any of this more "fringe" matters I'd love to hear them. Or if you could point me to a specific work of his, or of any of his disciples that would be cool too. Thanks
    You are the only possible steward of what your soul deems as right and wrong...so you should always be on your own side before anyone else...alive or dead.

  2. #2
    captain steve williams Typh0n's Avatar
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    Carl Jung Resources for Home Study and Practice

    I found this^. Seems like a good site, though I haven't explored it myself.

    I know he has written stuff about more "fringe" matters, but I couldn't pinpoint you to what exactly. Tell me if that site has anything you are looking for?

    Edit: You should look into Jung's concept of the trickster archetype. Seems to be what you are looking for.

  3. #3
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Are we talking about Jung's unpublished red book?

  4. #4
    Ambience seeker burningranger's Avatar
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    Typh0n: I'll look into it thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Are we talking about Jung's unpublished red book?
    Anything he's written. I've heard about the Red Book and how it might take a bit hard to interpret. I think I might have even read a few excerpts at the time of it's realease I'm not sure. I'm looking for the most direct answer to what his view was on some of these topics, siince he's someone whose view I respect as he clearly was a wise man and open-minded and willing to question his and society's assumptions about reality.
    You are the only possible steward of what your soul deems as right and wrong...so you should always be on your own side before anyone else...alive or dead.
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  5. #5
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningranger
    Does anyone here know or could point me to a resource where he might have talked about these things? Did he believe in past lives? To what extent did he feel the individual was responsible not only for the vanilla side of the shadow...but also these darker manifestations? Did he have his own explanation to any of these things I described? Or would he not include these in the shadow or under the scope of his psychology?
    There's a discussion of this subject in Appendix 2 of Roger Woolger's "Other Lives, Other Selves: A Jungian Psychotherapist Discovers Past Lives".

    Quote is from Jung's "Memories, Dreams, Reflections":
    Recently, however, I observed in myself a series of dreams which would seem to describe the process of reincarnation in a deceased person of my acquaintance. But I have never come across any such dreams in other persons, and therefore have no basis for comparison. Since this observation is subjective and unique, I prefer only to mention its existence and not to go into it any further. I must confess, however, that after this experience I view the problem of reincarnation with somewhat different eyes, though without being in a position to assert a definite opinion.
    Woolger alleged that "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" was heavily edited (according to Jung's daugher) to remove all mention of Jung's views on past lives.

    This is hearsay evidence:
    Was Jung's growing belief in reincarnation also embarrassing in some way? Apparently it was, according to a colleague of mine. This colleague visited Zurich recently and called upon one of Jung's daughters in order to interview her specifically about Jung's past life beliefs. She told him that her father had written quite a lot about the subject in his autobiography, but that it had all been changed by his Zurich editors.
    Woolger says that this colleague of his was shown the manuscript by Jung's daughter that contained references to reincarnation. This sounds odd; one would think that if the original manuscript still existed, that there'd be interest from other publishers.

    "How do you do know?" my colleague asked.

    In answer to his question she led him into another room and showed him a glass case containing the manuscript of Memories, Dreams, Reflections. She then proceeded to show him where certain words and passages had been altered by the editors to tone down the specific reincarnation content. Apparently Jung's family and editors had put pressure on Jung to make these changes out of some fear that he might appear senile to the public.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."
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  6. #6
    Ambience seeker burningranger's Avatar
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    Thank you Tellenbach! Very very interesting. This only confirms my idea that many of our geniuses and visionairies have had to not disclose many of their ideas to avoid judging eyes. This is what "peer scrutiny" can do to great ideas and our understadning of the world. You can investigate and explore reality....but only to a certain extent. The dogma police is sure to stop true advancement sooner or later. Almost a 100 years later...and reincarnation is still taboo for most people. I mean even in the 21st century in a forum dedicated to psychology...if I do mention it...it is most likely met with ridicule or contempt. It's like we haven't evolved at all when it comes to setting our own ego aside when it comes to objectively exploring different topics.

    I think someone like Jung was in the best position to prove reincarnation, considering how in depth his exploration of human pscyhe was. I get so pissed off when this sort of thing happens....grrrr
    You are the only possible steward of what your soul deems as right and wrong...so you should always be on your own side before anyone else...alive or dead.
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