Is it worse for women?

[Totenkindly]

....For you to be desirable, you need someone to desire for you. So, that would be a man, wouldn't it?

Dammit.

I hate validation needs.

Maybe the passive man-hunting is so passive that it is hard to realize?

Are you saying the only way to know for sure that one is worthy of love is to be loved by another?

...It's amazing that women and men alike seem to fall in love with those who will treat them the worst. It seems so counter-intuitive.

It's because the people who treat them the worst long-term are the ones who are fulfilling what they need (however misguided) in the moment, and maybe vice versa.

The same guy I mentioned before was actually a really nice guy -- thoughtful, smart, mostly open-minded, I enjoyed talk to him for long periods of time on the phone. When I saw him, though, the same niceness made him as passive as hell and unwilling to take any risks or show active interest. He even bitched about his last gf, who dumped him to go run to the bars every weekend with more Type A guys he apparently despised... but after spending the evening with him, I was left understanding why she might have found that more desirable.

It's a real crap shoot, and assertiveness is a double-edged sort. You want someone who is sensitive and non-domineering yet assertive and shows initiative and takes some risks. Not an easy combination to find (and especially in the young adult crowd including the sorority girls you mentioned, where everyone is still trying to figure out who they are and come into their own).

 

[Jack Flak]

Are you saying the only way to know for sure that one is worthy of love is to be loved by another?

It's scientifically inconclusive up to that point, aye?

 

[Salomé]

Girls, can you settle this?: Do more girls dress and try to look good for other girls or for guys?

Do women try to look attractive for men? Gee, I dunno, do bears sh*t in the woods?

I would like to add that I think it's very unfair that women are so much better-looking than men. A few mutant specimens aside, men are a bloody ugly lot.

This actually means that not only do us girls have to put up with less attractive partners (due to ancestral selection along non-aesthetic lines) but we also tend to have more superficial partners - double whammy.

It must be good to be a lesbian.....or a peahen....

It's scientifically inconclusive up to that point, aye?

balderdash and piffle! you can be loved by another and be entirely undeserving. No-one "deserves" love. Just as no-one deserves wealth. It’s a lottery out there.

 

[cascadeco]

Here we come back to the make-up and plastics. So, it isn't all woman thing ("I want to look good for myself") but more like a silent competition of women to get the men? Again a big simplification, but... does most of the low self-esteem among women come from this feeling of not being "beautiful enough" compared to the others?

Um...apparently I'm the only one on here with self-esteem issues, but this statement certainly applies to me.

I don't think I try to 'look good' for other women. I don't really care what other women think of me. I want to 'look good' for men.

Perhaps I don't think my personality has ever really been appreciated, or recognized, or sought out, in the past, so maybe that's why I put so much emphasis (admittedly wrongly, I know it's an esteem thing but I can't really get rid of it) on my appearance, and like Jennifer wrote earlier, when I feel ugly, I feel completely undesirable and like no one in the world will ever want me.

I'm never going to get plastic surgery, because it just doesn't seem 'right' to me and I want to be liked for who I am. However, at the same time, through growing up and in all sorts of venues (work and extracurricular) I always hear guys talking about 'hot girls', and contrasting them to 'but-her-faces', and I have a hard time really believing that guys don't care that much about a woman's looks (at least in this thread, the guys' responses have been such that a girls appearance isn't that important, and the woman just needs to get more self esteem rather than focus on her appearance. But that's kinda a lie in my opinion. Attraction IS important, and men want to be with attractive women).

Random comment -- say you have a woman in her 20's or 30's with thinning hair, and by her late 30's she very well may need a wig. What say you, men? Is that something a woman can easily slough off and still find tons of suitors who really want her? Obviously looks aren't ultimately important when it comes to a friendship, but I think it's bull that it's crocked up to a simple esteem issue when the reality seems to point towards attraction/desirability being a key factor in the initial pairing and romance. Obviously longevity is going to need a lot more than that though.

 

[Jack Flak]

balderdash and piffle! you can be loved by another and be entirely undeserving. No-one "deserves" love. Just as no-one deserves wealth. It’s a lottery out there.

'Tis but logic, friend. If you are loved, you have proved yourself lovable. My line: "You're adorable...Know how I know?" "How?" "Cause I adore you!"

 

[Salomé]

say you have a woman in her 20's or 30's with thinning hair, and by her late 30's she very well may need a wig. What say you, men? Is that something a woman can easily slough off

 

[Salomé]

'Tis but logic, friend. If you are loved, you have proved yourself lovable.

lovable yes
deserving of love, not necessarily

bluemonday 1
Jack Flak 0

 

[Jack Flak]

No you FAIL. Deserve wasn't in the question. Besides, "deserve" is an irrelevant concept, always.

 

[Salomé]

Are you saying the only way to know for sure that one is worthy[\b] of love is to be loved by another?

It's scientifically inconclusive up to that point, aye?

:banned:

 

[Jack Flak]

Where is the word deserve? I stand by my win.

 

[Salomé]

Where is the word deserve? I stand by my win.

you stand alone!

 

[heart]

I would like to add that I think it's very unfair that women are so much better-looking than men. A few mutant specimens aside, men are a bloody ugly lot.

Men are not ugly. Women are not "better looking" than men, just different. I prefer looking at men over looking at women if given a choice, the male body has its own beauty and believe me it's not "a few specimens" there's a lot of beautiful men out there in everyday life.

I would never be so bold as to tell them, but I notice them.

 

[Salomé]

Men are not ugly. Women are not "better looking" than men, just different. I prefer looking at men over looking at women if given a choice, the male body has its own beauty.

maybe not in Colinwood - you should get out more

 

[Jack Flak]

"Worthy of love" can only possibly be defined by being loved. I really don't understand all this argee bargee.

 

[Salomé]

I really don't understand all this argee bargee.

clearly

 

[Ivy]

I think that if you always feel that you aren't pretty enough, it isn't your looks that are to blame, but low self-esteem. Not unlike the beautiful straight-A student that starves herself and feels that she's ugly and fat. When you do not accept yourself as you are, you will use aspects of your person(ality) as scapegoats.

How can I put this delicately? I'll try. This is fairly insightful but it rings a bit hollow coming from a total smokin' hottie such as yourself. It's hard to pin down cause vs. effect here. The straight-A student who is ugly and fat may have low self-esteem because she's considered ugly and fat. And that probably makes her overeat and neglect her appearance, which keeps her from escaping her ugly and fatness.

I don't (usually) think I'm ugly but I've been various degrees of fat since the 3rd grade, and it sucks major ass. I really do have healthy self-esteem otherwise and I think if I could magically be not-a-fatty it would be nothing but positive.

 

[heart]

maybe not in Colinwood - you should get out more

Actually Indiana has the best looking men I've seen so far. Cornfed.

Well, all I can say is: Open your eyes to male beauty!

 

[heart]

How can I put this delicately? I'll try. This is fairly insightful but it rings a bit hollow coming from a total smokin' hottie such as yourself. It's hard to pin down cause vs. effect here. The straight-A student who is ugly and fat may have low self-esteem because she's considered ugly and fat. And that probably makes her overeat and neglect her appearance, which keeps her from escaping her ugly and fatness.

I don't (usually) think I'm ugly but I've been various degrees of fat since the 3rd grade, and it sucks major ass. I really do have healthy self-esteem otherwise and I think if I could magically be not-a-fatty it would be nothing but positive.

I continue to have issues with my facial features (called ugly in school), it never really goes away. But I wouldn't go through the expense or PAIN of plastic surgery to fix any of them. But if I suddenly woke up one morning and looked better it would be nothing but positive.

 

[entropie]

I continue to have issues with my facial features (called ugly in school), it never really goes away. But I wouldn't go through the expense or PAIN of plastic surgery to fix any of them. But if I suddenly woke up one morning and looked better it would be nothing but positive.

fuck facial features, if the heart sucks, the whole person sucks ! And that's not the case here *slips on slime*

 

[burkeus]

Actually Indiana has the best looking men I've seen so far. Cornfed.

Well, all I can say is: Open your eyes to male beauty!

Where's Indiana