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  1. #61
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Maybe.
    Somewhat.
    There's enough randy/carnal N guys around here, though.
    Once the drive kicks in, both S's and N's can be pretty carnal.
    No real difference in drive. Ns just are less aware of how it influences their decision. Actually, Oberon's "I just realised I preferred redheads" thread comes to mind immediately.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    No real difference in drive. Ns just are less aware of how it influences their decision.
    I don't deny my preferences, but they have proved to be very easily changed as the time goes by. I don't think I could make a list about the things that attract me. And this is maybe the reason why I say many women think less of themselves than they should. There are many things that can make them attractive.

  3. #63
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I don't deny my preferences, but they have proved to be very easily changed as the time goes by. I don't think I could make a list about the things that attract me. And this is maybe the reason why I say many women think less of themselves than they should. There are many things that can make them attractive.
    Studies in speed dating have shown that (men and women) we tend to adjust preferences very very quickly. Our actual mate selection process is more or less entirely arational (meaning, below awareness) - we rationalize after the fact.

    For example, if you do a survey on your preferences, then go through speed dating, your preferences next week will tend to match the person you ranked highest during the speed dating, not your previous preferences.

    It is more notable for women than men, however this is mostly because men are simple

    The same goes for our securities in terms of mate selection. It is buried really deep - everytime we walk around, we are evaluating ourselves, others... It influences us all the time.

  4. #64
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I don't deny my preferences, but they have proved to be very easily changed as the time goes by. I don't think I could make a list about the things that attract me. And this is maybe the reason why I say many women think less of themselves than they should. There are many things that can make them attractive.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Studies in speed dating have shown that (men and women) we tend to adjust preferences very very quickly. Our actual mate selection process is more or less entirely arational (meaning, below awareness) - we rationalize after the fact.

    For example, if you do a survey on your preferences, then go through speed dating, your preferences next week will tend to match the person you ranked highest during the speed dating, not your previous preferences.
    This is true and why I pay no attention to what people say their preferences are anymore. The only downside to that is that it can make you question a person's sense of loyalty and commitment once you're involved with them.

  5. #65
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    Oh, I just realized. We haven't answered the question. Is it harder for women? This far we have found out that:

    Men have ability to have more babies than women
    which means that
    - Women go for quality
    - Men go for quantity

    Some men are highly popular among women
    which means
    - They set the standard of the "desirable man"
    - The desirable men as a group show what is the kind of woman they prefer
    - So the desirable men define the desirable woman
    - This is a loop: Popular women choose popular men who choose popular women. (what does it mean?)

    Women value themselves by comparing themselves to the other women
    - Can you get a popular man?
    - If not, does that mean you are unsuccessful?

    The popular men set the standard for what is desirable woman
    - If a man has to "settle for less" than the standard, is he unsuccessful?
    - Does the non-dominant male realize his place and "settle for less" automatically?

    Role of a father is also important to consider
    - Why would a woman prefer a weaker man?
    - Are the non-dominant males doomed to be fathers of the dominant male's children?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    The only downside to that is that it can make you question a person's sense of loyalty and commitment.
    I don't think that loyalty or commitment come from the attractiveness of the mate.

  7. #67
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Oh, I just realized. We haven't answered the question. Is it harder for women? This far we have found out that:

    Men have ability to have more babies than women
    which means that
    - Women go for quality
    - Men go for quantity
    Last I checked, Men still can't have babies.*

    Men go for quantity - perhaps.
    Women go for quality - they may go for it, but do they find it?

    It is safe to assume in this and all other matters, that it is always harder for women.

    (*if they can, this might be an exception to the above rule)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #68
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I don't think that loyalty or commitment come from the attractiveness of the mate.
    You're right it doesn't however if someone feels attracted to many different types of mates then they may feel trapped and struggle within a commitment to just one type.

  9. #69
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Oh, I just realized. We haven't answered the question. Is it harder for women? This far we have found out that:

    Men have ability to have more babies than women
    which means that
    - Women go for quality
    - Men go for quantity

    Some men are highly popular among women
    which means
    - They set the standard of the "desirable man"
    - The desirable men as a group show what is the kind of woman they prefer
    - So the desirable men define the desirable woman
    - This is a loop: Popular women choose popular men who choose popular women. (what does it mean?)

    Women value themselves by comparing themselves to the other women
    - Can you get a popular man?
    - If not, does that mean you are unsuccessful?

    The popular men set the standard for what is desirable woman
    - If a man has to "settle for less" than the standard, is he unsuccessful?
    - Does the non-dominant male realize his place and "settle for less" automatically?

    Role of a father is also important to consider
    - Why would a woman prefer a weaker man?
    - Are the non-dominant males doomed to be fathers of the dominant male's children?
    This is called calculating concupiscence.

    And is the work of abject objects.

  10. #70
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Just a question (and sorry if this was already addressed- I didn't feel like reading back a few pages) how does the availability of birth control change these dynamics? Will some women, like some men, start going for quantity instead of quality?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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