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Change: Can you change another

LightSun

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#9
“If it is hard for you to "change", then how can you "realistically" & rationally believe that you can "change" another human "being"? Knowing this truth could prevent so much misery. People are always seeing to change others rather than look within. It is extremely difficult to change, even if one wants to.

It is almost impossible to change another human being. The "changes" have to come from within. What one can do is: State your boundaries. State your feelings. State your position and wants, wishes, & expectations etc. Do not seek to control the other. This is negative energy. It will come back your way if you seek to impose your "will" upon another human being.” LightSun
 

LightSun

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#9
“People live in different perceptual realities and live by different truths. Obviously not everyone can be right. in fact no one is totally right. This is why we fight instead of listening to each other and both honoring and respecting other people's truths and really learning listening skill so as to discover their element of truth. We need reflecting, mutual problem solving, and correcting the unreasonableness from our side as well as theirs. There was a saying," The true battle lays within us all.

I sort of believed this wholeheartedly that the mightiest enemy indeed to conquer was self and this personal kingdom called heaven lay within.Since birth we have been deceived with at best half-truths. It takes a lifetime to disentangle oneself from the net of lies and illusions. In addition the battle still may not be won for it takes a pure and disciplined willing heart prepared walking upon this path few travel for it is mightily difficult as well perilous for on it we shall come face our own true self and nature.” LightSun
 

Norrsken

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Well said, OP. Learning this has freed me from so many destructive expectations and painful let downs.
 

Amargith

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You can only help them change. They have to want to in the first place.
 

Frosty

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Not if they dont want to.

And it depends what is meant about change as to whether I thibk its a good thing. Peoples idiosyncracies- even ones I personally might find annoying are THEIRS and imo what part of what makes them just- the generally valuable person they are. I would never want to change anyone by making them feel uncomfortable with who they were at core.

That said- sometimes it can be good to point out problems- if they are REALLY problems. This usually isnt the person AT CORE- but maybe something you see that is troubling them of others- that you KNOW that the other person well... you hope things are better - easier for them- at the other side of it

It is a hard thing to judge though- and at the end of the day- you just cant- and really... for the most part... dont NEED to push too hard. People for the most part develop at their own pace in their own way- and you just gotta be a friend during it I think.
 

highlander

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“If it is hard for you to "change", then how can you "realistically" & rationally believe that you can "change" another human "being"? Knowing this truth could prevent so much misery. People are always seeing to change others rather than look within. It is extremely difficult to change, even if one wants to.

It is almost impossible to change another human being. The "changes" have to come from within. What one can do is: State your boundaries. State your feelings. State your position and wants, wishes, & expectations etc. Do not seek to control the other. This is negative energy. It will come back your way if you seek to impose your "will" upon another human being.” LightSun

I agree. I think we tend to be attracted to our opposite when young and then the first thing we try to do when that starts to wear off is to try and change them so they are more like us. Then they try and get people to change the things in others they don't like about themselves but don't realize or admit are their flaws. It's the pot calling the kettle black syndrome. People project so much of themselves onto others that it really quite amusing - both positive and negative qualities - and to be so completely blind towards this.....

Clearly there are ways we can help people to change in a positive way but most change people try and impose upon others falls into those categories I mentioned above. It's more about them than the person they are criticizing.
 

Smilephantomhive

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The answer will be yes with genetic engineering.
 

Tilt

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With force, only temporarily.
 

LightSun

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#9
Not if they dont want to.

And it depends what is meant about change as to whether I thibk its a good thing. Peoples idiosyncracies- even ones I personally might find annoying are THEIRS and imo what part of what makes them just- the generally valuable person they are. I would never want to change anyone by making them feel uncomfortable with who they were at core.

That said- sometimes it can be good to point out problems- if they are REALLY problems. This usually isnt the person AT CORE- but maybe something you see that is troubling them of others- that you KNOW that the other person well... you hope things are better - easier for them- at the other side of it

It is a hard thing to judge though- and at the end of the day- you just cant- and really... for the most part... dont NEED to push too hard. People for the most part develop at their own pace in their own way- and you just gotta be a friend during it I think.

Change: Can you change another (All quotations from Frosty followed by my reply).

Frosty wrote, (1) "... idiosyncrasies- even ones I personally might find annoying are THEIRS ... generally valuable person they are" and " ... never want to change anyone by making them feel uncomfortable with who they were at core."

Good attitude, their would be so much peace if people stated their position allowing others to disagree all the while retaining boundaries along mutual respect.

(2) "... sometimes it can be good to point out problems- if they are REALLY problems."

I state what I personally think and feel position.

(3) "...hard thing to judge...end of the day- you just cant..."

Precisely judging only reveal our own limitation in not understanding or seeing things from another position.

(4) "People for the most part develop at their own pace in their own way- and you just gotta be a friend during it I think."

Wise attitude to have Frosty.
 

LightSun

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I agree. I think we tend to be attracted to our opposite when young and then the first thing we try to do when that starts to wear off is to try and change them so they are more like us. Then they try and get people to change the things in others they don't like about themselves but don't realize or admit are their flaws. It's the pot calling the kettle black syndrome. People project so much of themselves onto others that it really quite amusing - both positive and negative qualities - and to be so completely blind towards this.....

Clearly there are ways we can help people to change in a positive way but most change people try and impose upon others falls into those categories I mentioned above. It's more about them than the person they are criticizing.

Change: Can you change another (All quotations from highlander followed by my reply).

highlander wrote, (1) "...to be attracted to our opposite when young...then the first thing we try to do when that starts to wear off is to try and change them so they are more like us."

This is hard to define. I think some people are attracted to different people with a host of attributes. Some go for looks, others safety, some look for a similar partner and as you stated perhaps another to help balance out their own selves. I personally have had few relationships as I am an introvert and am deep introspectively. I looked for a similar soul-mate and found a love of my life.

(2) "...get people to change the things in others they don't like about themselves but don't realize or admit are their flaws."

It is a part of the problem of the human race. We seek harmony and for that to occur we try to dispel differences in others and try to make them more like ourselves. Luckily I have an internal locus of control, and am open to other people's differences. I seek common ground and consciously accept the differences. I noticed in my marriage however the unconscious would sometimes be triggered by the differences of my spouse.

(3) "...project so much of themselves...both positive and negative qualities - and to be so completely blind towards this."

Yes as I alluded to my unconscious had a mind of it's own. For me in introspection these triggers and differences where areas where I could grow from by realizing another person as unique and retaining mutually respectful boundaries always open to compromise.

(4) "... them than the person they are criticizing."

Exactly. Projection and judgment interfere in harmonious interpersonal relations. It is a great unexplored area of growth provided one is open minded and relatively free of triggers. If triggered one should take responsibility and look within oneself.
 
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I think people can only decide to clean their room, or sort themselves out on their own terms. If they decide to clean their room, we can help them with what we can, but we cannot take over the cleaning duties. They have to be the one to clean their room.
 

Wunjo

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"How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the bulb also must want to change".
 

LightSun

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#9
"If it is hard for you to "change", then how can you "realistically" and rationally believe that you can "change" another human "being"? Knowing this truth could prevent so much misery. People are always seeing to change others rather than look within. We as a species resist change for it is both painful as well very difficult. A change agent reformer will have the vision of a wonderful future, but will be resisted. We as individuals seek to maintain order, clarity, and consistency within our lives.

To go against status quo is profoundly resisted. We also largely live in the moment. This is to mean we react versus plan for contingencies proactively. Reading psychological profiles, there are some types who consistently perform rather well with a solution focused and a more future oriented base. Nonetheless we happen to be guided very much by emotion, in a sort of pain-pleasure paradigm. We seek avoiding any pain (change), while seeking gratification with worldly pleasures. Many are of an illusion type.

When we die are all our hours spending on immediate gratification such as sex, clothes, money, possessions and food, will it avail us? I according with Maslow and also Csikszentmihaly go with a "flow" and or seeking "peak experiences," as my optimal level of seeking a "truer" life experience. Or call it actualizing potential as well as in developing my latent gifts as more fulfilling than chasing the illusion type of distractions in life. All the wisdom quotes say to look within and that if something bothers us there is a disturbance within the self. It is a blind spot from our spiritual awareness.

This it is the most opportune time for spiritual growth, to act with reason and compassion no matter the external event. It is because of the blind spots we all have that we see the twig in our fellow man's eye but not the log in our own. If each concentrated on their journey and remaining true to it this world would be a better place. Instead we cast blame, castigate and judge others not knowing we are giving in to our own blind spots of spiritual awareness and projecting our fears and prejudices.

Even wanting to change and become a better person, does not necessitate an actual occurrence of the desired change will occur. For we seem to fight ourselves. It is a phenomenon. It is as if we as children have been molded into a shape. To change we have to figuratively metamorphosis into a new person. New things scare people. This is why the young are more revolutionary. They see things don’t work and think they have all the plans to change things for the better, even resorting to violence.

After all they can feel invulnerable, strong, and virtually impervious. Plus they happen not being enmeshed by illusion qualities as wealth, a house, multiple possessions, a spouse and family, responsibilities as bills, so forth. As a person grows older one finds oneself chained by invisible chains like the materialism in the world. They then act as guardians protecting their assets in their own self made enclosed castles of materialism protecting the very things that possess them.

Change is always difficult because we are comfortable doing things a certain way. We can resist change even if it is good for us in the long run. For every right we have, we have fought, and fought hard. In the long run we shall not be denied. I once long ago said "Change is hard." Somebody unknown to me replied, "Maybe for you."

Okay (1) Your a hard right Conservative now change to a hard core left Democrat liberal. Or do the reverse.

(2) You are a hunter, have animal trophy heads upon your mantel piece wear fur coats now change and become a vegetarian and never take an animal's life. Or the reverse a vegetarian turn into a big game hunter.

(3) Your a theist or hold to what religious view you hold now change to an atheist view or do the reverse: a non-believer that turn into a believer of any type.

(4) Your a 'Thinker. Become a feeler. Again do this in reverse if it's the belief.

(5) I don't think we 'Change' as so rather come more into our own. That is developing our latent and hidden dormant faculties and evolve them into developing.

It is a true measure of character and spiritual development to take responsibility for one's emotions and not project our fears and prejudices to the outside world and other individuals. We have to experience deep rooted pain. For with a change, indeed all changes there are a risk of enduring pain. We instinctively avoid this pain, even when it is in our best interests. Until somehow we can override this fear complex chemically or by some other terrific means we will be enclosed in a prison of our own making, and that is what the mind is willing to endure, and what it is not.

'Stumbling blocks to effective change'

(1) Our belief system have been passed down the generations passed down in folk knowledge and wisdom sayings that does not possess scientific viability.

(2) We all have blind spots of awareness. We all can only glimmer a slice of reality and not reality in it's entirety due to blind spots and unfinished business and issues.

(3) Cognitive Dissonance prevents change because if a person is met with something unfamiliar, strange or different they shall be uncomfortable and so seek to disquiet the discomfort in a reactionary way that may be irrational.

(4) There are defensive Mechanisms designed to not look at areas inside us that might harbor pain and so we instinctively avoid this.

(5) If we are being of a Dogmatic and rigid nature we shall not be open minded enough. We shall be resistant to change.

(6) We instinctively fear the unknown. We have a tendency to say to ourselves, "Well I know my reality and if I do these changes it will be discomforting and I might lose out and I'll end up worse off." We don't want to give up what we feel as a right or a possession.

(7) We all have a type of lens in our perception of reality. Think of it as the Hubble telescope. Fear and hurts distort the lens or the ability to see and deal with reality realistically. We may give in to defenses by overcompensating and not addressing the problem areas.

(8) We are a reactive species. It probably is in the DNA of 100, 000 years of our forebears. They had to be at constant vigilance. We aren't behaviorally adept with the more actualized proactive stance.

(9) It all begins in our childhood with dysfunctional parents, distortions and faulty beliefs. The schemas we inherit from our parents are then placed in the software of our experiences.

It's so easy to sleep as a caterpillar, but if we fear the transformation into a butterfly, we will never know the glorious sense of flight or reach our true potential. Think of child-birth. It is painful, but brings bountiful opportunities.We must shed our snake skin of blindness in order to see."
 
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Stigmata

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People don't change, at least not with will and provocation. Even if they do change the action, the mentality that led to the original behavior is still present, albeit lying dormant.
 
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