User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 18 of 18

  1. #11
    mrs disregard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    7,855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I mentioned that book by Nathaniel Branden in my blog ("Honoring the Self") -- regardless if it is entirely effective, it would probably be a good read for you at some point.
    Great book!

    I especially liked the list of questions at the beginning about your relationship with your parents as a child. It's great to be able to put your finger on why you look at yourself the way you do when you see that it was because of A, B, and C (boundaries weren't respected, they made you seem like a burden, etc) and not because your perception of yourself is a reality.

  2. #12
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    This kind of thing bothers me more when I am sleep deprived or I haven't eaten lately. There are things in my life I have no control over that give me anxiety and I just have to try and give myself a break over them, on the other things I just try to admit the parts of the inner critic that are valid and say that I will work on them and then try to take it step by step.

    It sounds like inferior thinking (the function being inferior in the line up, not your thinking being inferior) and so thoughts come out more negatively colored than feeling, so a good way is to try to understand what the thoughts are trying to communicate underneath the negative aspect.

    Like self-doubt in some area. Say you were trying to learn some skill and the fear comes over you that you don't know this skill and will do a bad job at it, can never do it and all the nagging thoughts that come...well the real concern underlying these negative thoughts is the check that you may currently not know this skill and your thinking is afraid feeling will simply want to believe all will be well and not take the time to actually learn the skill, it is just a check saying "hey do we know what we need to know here?" but because thinking is heard in negative fashion it comes out as "We don't know, we're a dummy, we'll never be able to know, etc."

    ...then say to yourself, "well I may not know all there is to know about this skill and how to do it right now, but I can learn and taken bit by bit it can be accomplished, I hear you inner critic and I accept your concern that I don't know, but I can and will learn so relax."

  3. #13
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    It's good that you revived this thread by talking about Jennifer's book, Dana, because I picked it up myself and am on page ninety-nine.

    I liked some of the talk about children and parents, too, but I don't remember any of it specifically.

    I like the book; good logic in it. A LOT of what he's talking about is very similar to thoughts I've had myself. But a lot is news, too.

    What is sort of news to me is that... I probably do feel wrong on a basic level; inappropriate to life; as though the nature of my being is defective in some way.

    Another sort of revelation is that I probably do have some standards to which my self-worth is intimately entwined; standards that I perceive myself to be failing to meet. Something that really helped was reading this:

    The experience of self-esteem anxiety always involves and reflects a particular kind of conflict, and the acute anxiety attack is occasioned by the ego's confrontation with this conflict.

    Suppose, for example, that a man aspires for years to a position for which he secretly feels inadequate. Shortly after he is promoted to that position, he awakens in the middle of the night with queer sensations in his head and a painful tightness in his chest. He experiences a state of violent anxiety. In the days that follow, he begins to express worry and concern about his children's school grades; then he begins to moan that his house is uninsured; finally he begins to cry that he is going insane. But the fact of his promotion does not enter his conscious mind.

    His anxiety is triggered by the collision of two absolutes: a value imperative ("I must know what to do to handle the responsibilities of my new position") and the feeling that he is inadequate to obey that imperative ("I don't and can't"). The conflict is not conscious; it is repressed. But the effect of the conflict is to demolish his pretense of control over his life and thus to precipitate his anxiety.

    Observe the nature of the conflict. It is a clash between a value imperative ("I should know what to do; I must know what to do") engaging the man's sense of personal worth and a failure or flaw or inadequacy that the man experiences as a result of breaching that imperative ("I don't know what to do").

    Another example is a woman raised to believe that her personal worth is a function of her role as wife and mother. For years she has repressed any impulse toward self-assertiveness or self-expression that threatens to interfere with her officially designated function. Building within her is an enormous rage that she does allow herself to acknowledge or confront. But more and more frequently, she finds herself having fantasies of her husband and children being killed in an automobile accident. She becomes oversolicitous of her family's well-being [to compensate for her guilt], to the point of annoying everyone. Then she feels rejected. The rage keeps on building. The fantasies of her family's death increasingly dominate her consciousness.

    One day, standing at the kitchen sink and washing dishes, she suddenly finds that she has difficulty distinguishing the colors of objects; everything in her field of vision begins to swim, and terrible pains appear to be coming from her heart. She feels certain she is going to die of a heart attack.

    The collision is between the value imperative of "I must not" and the contradictory emotion of "I did, do, and will continue to wish for my family's death."

    The clash is between a value imperative (should, should not; must, must not) engaging her sense of personal worth and an emotion, desire or fantasy that contradicts that imperative.

    In every instance of self-esteem anxiety, we will find a conflict in the form of "I must/should have" versus "I cannot/did not," or "I must not" versus "I do/did/will." There is always a conflict between, on the one hand, some value imperative that is tied, in a crucial and profound way, to the person's self-appraisal and inner equilibrium, and, on the other hand, some failure, inadequacy, action, emotion, desire or fantasy that the person regards as a breach of that imperative, a breach that the person believes expresses or reflects a basic and unalterable fact of his or her "nature."


    -Nathaniel Branden, "Honoring the Self," pages 78-79.

    That hit home, really hard. And I felt a lot less burdened after reading it. I probably have more than one standard to which my self-esteem is entwined, but a couple I think I've set for myself are: intelligence and competence; loving myself and having self-esteem. And I probably feel that I'm not meeting those standards a lot of the time, or don't possess the capacity to meet them.

    But I still nearly had an anxiety attack tonight, and this time, for the first time, I really did feel pains in my heart. Sigh. I don't know how to explain that. I don't know where it came from. Even armed with this knowledge, it just happened. There must be more to this that I haven't uncovered; it's probably going to be an arduous process, reclaiming my sense of worth and sense of confidence. But I have to embark on it, even if it really sucks sometimes, and even if I find dead-ends. (That's easy to say when I'm actually feeling pretty good.)
    They're running just like you
    For you, and I, wooo
    So people, people, need some good ol' love

  4. #14

    Default

    ^^

    I'm sorry about your anxiety attack tonight, but I'm so glad that you read that passage and identified with it. I think that it hits right to the core of your anxiety, and I hope it helps
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #15
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Yes, sorry....that's not nice.
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  6. #16
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    This kind of thing bothers me more when I am sleep deprived or I haven't eaten lately. There are things in my life I have no control over that give me anxiety and I just have to try and give myself a break over them, on the other things I just try to admit the parts of the inner critic that are valid and say that I will work on them and then try to take it step by step.
    I think this is a pretty valid approach. Actually! It sounds amazingly like what Nathaniel Branden talks about in his book. He stresses basing our self-worth on things we can control rather than things we can't, and he stresses that self-esteem can't just be "willed" into existence; one has to live in congruence with one's standards and values. The problem is that a person can set irrational, ridiculous, impossible or self-destructive standards for themselves.

    He says that if we know what we can control and take responsibility for, we will also know what we CAN'T control and take responsibility for. It's taking responsibility for our behavior and trying to correct mistakes that is one pillar of self-esteem.

    Like self-doubt in some area. Say you were trying to learn some skill and the fear comes over you that you don't know this skill and will do a bad job at it, can never do it and all the nagging thoughts that come...well the real concern underlying these negative thoughts is the check that you may currently not know this skill and your thinking is afraid feeling will simply want to believe all will be well and not take the time to actually learn the skill, it is just a check saying "hey do we know what we need to know here?" but because thinking is heard in negative fashion it comes out as "We don't know, we're a dummy, we'll never be able to know, etc."
    Yes, I definitely think some self-gentleness is appropriate, if possible.

    ...then say to yourself, "well I may not know all there is to know about this skill and how to do it right now, but I can learn and taken bit by bit it can be accomplished, I hear you inner critic and I accept your concern that I don't know, but I can and will learn so relax."
    They're running just like you
    For you, and I, wooo
    So people, people, need some good ol' love

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    I found this book to have some helpful ways of approaching anxiety, especially when caught in a spiral with its opposite, depression.



    It's easy for me to get so caught up inside my head into this intangible, convoluted knot, that the directness and practical ideas in this book really help me. One suggestion is to take note of every sensation that brings you a good feeling: smell, sound, sights, touch, etc. Then when you start to have negative feelings, surround yourself and flood your senses with peaceful input. I like that because it is something I can just do. I don't have to trick my mind into thinking this or that, or stop my thoughts. Anxiety can be so intangible, like fearing and running from a shadow. That is why it is so hard to control. Making things more tangible can be a relief. It is at least a place to start.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    type
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INFP
    Posts
    963

    Default

    I fight through the fear!

Similar Threads

  1. Apathy: how do you overcome it?
    By INA in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 06-29-2015, 07:14 PM
  2. [NF] NFs: How do you like it?
    By Brendan in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-27-2012, 09:52 PM
  3. [ENFJ] how do I fix it:(? (esp for ENFJ + INFP, but any reply welcome!)
    By bearette in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-02-2009, 07:10 PM
  4. Organization, how do you get it done? (Ps welcome)
    By raz in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 02-02-2009, 02:46 AM
  5. How do you like it?
    By Wyst in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 07-23-2008, 09:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO