User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 91

  1. #21
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I'm beginning to come out of my shell, I don't know what changed. But I think being forced to take care of issues by calling helped alot.
    Yeah that was a big hurdle for me too, years ago, when I left home I had to confront the whole 'using the telephone' thing to get my shit together. I still really hate calling to sort bills and stuff but it's for a different reason now, I'm not shy any more it's just that the companies are incompetent and the call centre people are usually badly trained and it's just frustrating dealing with them lol

    Though I will still say I'm an introvert because though I often feel fine now around large groups of people I find my self yawning about an hour or two in and just needing to find a quiet spot.
    Yeah I don't mean to seem like I'm saying people can be turned into extraverts, I wasn't turned into one, I was one all the time, I wasn't avoiding people because of needing time alone to recharge my batteries and stuff, the time I spent alone didn't make me feel good at all and I was depressed all the time. I was only avoiding people because of social anxiety and now that anxiety is largely 'cured', socializing energizes me totally as it would've done before if not for the issues I had.

    But even introverts need friends and people to relate to, in smaller numbers and shorter periods than extraverts, granted, but all the same, the principle of needing to overcome anxiety applies... if anything my story just goes to show that extraverts can be just as much victims of social anxiety and often have to go through similarly painful processes in order to be 'trained'

    entropie - your story echoes my own in that it took a total breakdown and then the drive to 'come back' stronger, to give you the will and whatever, to push yourself 'out there'.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #22
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    No, their methods didn't work in any way at all, I thought I made that quite clear - their methods caused me to almost have a total breakdown and isolate myself more than ever before, for a long time. I can't think how that could be construed as me saying they were in any way, directly or indirectly, successful!!

    There isn't a moral of my story lol I'm not trying to say what always does or doesn't work. Unless the moral is that whilst some things work for some people, those same things can be disastrous when applied to people for whom they're not suited. But I wasn't really trying to impress a moral so much as asking for other people's experiences.
    Oh okay, I misunderstood your post then . I read it as saying that while their methods were damaging in the short run, it prompted you to eventually make a change where you probably wouldn't have before (before the whole ordeal, that is). Sorry.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #23
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh okay, I misunderstood your post then . I read it as saying that while their methods were damaging in the short run, it prompted you to eventually make a change where you probably wouldn't have before (before the whole ordeal, that is). Sorry.
    Ah right. No, I did actually start making moves on my own before the 'ordeal' haha, but as soon as I hit an obstacle these guys decided it was time for me to receive some, ahem, expert guidance... it's not just that their methods of socializing didn't suit me, but the ends, not just the means, were something that were not suited to my character. They seemed to want me to reach a sort of Fi-underpinned relationship with the general public and individual people, that was their ideal, it was where they wanted me to be headed and it was for signs of this that they were looking in order to judge what level of success I had achieved.

    I later took a more Ti/Fe approach... it wasn't Ne that was an issue for me because I didn't really have much trouble in perceiving what was going on, but it was my judging functions, knowing which ones to use and in what way, so to speak, that I needed to work on. Ti and Fe were more natural for me and in line with the sort of relationship that I wanted and was most capable of, with other people, as opposed to the Fi/Te one they were pushing me towards...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Well, I've had people try to tell me what it was to be confident and relaxed and social, but the way they did it never worked. I had someone tell me I must always, always, always formally introduce myself, shake hands, ask how they are...all that. Which does not work for me and throws me off (I will: forget my own name, not ask their name, forget to shake their hand, not ask how they are in response to them asking me how I am...). I realise it's somewhat required in business relations, but, dammit, most social relations are not business, and trying to box them in as such just makes the situation unbearably awkward for me.

    I had another person tell me to go join a club, which might have worked, except I was looking at interfacing with more than three people at a time (and when you've gotten to be quite shy, anything more than three people is very, very daunting...actually it still is sometimes). I would have been sensory overload the entire time and spent most of my time hiding in the back feeling miserable.

    What ended up working was replicating in my head what it felt like to feel confident and relaxed and what it felt like to laugh and enjoy myself around one person. I found that if I made myself remember that feeling and then mentally apply it like an overlay to a situation involving multiple people, that it was indeed possible to feel completely at ease and able to be myself in all my imperfections. This revalation is very recent, though. I've put it through some practical testing, and it's worked so far. However, I think the idea comes apart at the seams with large groups of people. I suspect it always will, and that's okay. This also doesn't change that I can only take small bites of time with groups of people before I start getting tired (as is evidenced if I'm sitting on a couch...I gradually become more slouched and horizontal the more tired I am until I'm eventually almost sliding off onto the floor).
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

  5. #25
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Reading the Jack Flak vs Mighty Mouse thread in the Graveyard triggered some thoughts...

    A few years ago, when I was just beginning to start a new life, from previously being very isolated and having next to no social experience, skills or confidence, I had an ENFP brother and an ESFP friend who took it on themselves to bring me out of my shell... and their methods ended up driving me totally crazy until I finally exploded and sorta had to fire them both from my life temporarily and closet myself away again for several months.

    Then I emerged again, gradually, and did things my way... and within a year it started to become clear that I had all the time been an extravert, just a severely stunted one... and I made such huge progress that by the end of that year people were not believing me when I said I related to them if they told me they had social anxiety.

    Hmm... I've no doubt that if I hadn't stood up to my self-appointed mentors and carried on doing things their way, then to this day I'd probably still be riddled with anxieties and complexes... in fact, one of the reasons why I hermit-ed myself for so long after my explosion was because I had so many NEW anxieties that had only been put in place BY the things they put me through.

    I know they only meant well, but the effect of their good intentions was disastrous. The amazing thing is, they still to this day don't acknowledge any fault in this, and hold that their methods were 'fine', and the only problem was me. Despite the fact that, through different methods, I've become very much a social creature!

    Does anyone else have experience of being forced out of their shell? Did it work for anyone? Anyone have experience of doing it for themselves?
    With a little commentary your post could be used to answer this thread:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...-hypnosis.html

  6. #26
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Well, I've had people try to tell me what it was to be confident and relaxed and social, but the way they did it never worked. I had someone tell me I must always, always, always formally introduce myself, shake hands, ask how they are...all that. Which does not work for me and throws me off (I will: forget my own name, not ask their name, forget to shake their hand, not ask how they are in response to them asking me how I am...). I realise it's somewhat required in business relations, but, dammit, most social relations are not business, and trying to box them in as such just makes the situation unbearably awkward for me.
    Right. And y'know, when I meet people who are like that, I tend to find them really kinda weird, their businesslike, super-polite approach sorta creeps me out a bit and I can't help questioning their sincerity... so it's not necessarily good advice either, even if you can follow it successfully...

    What ended up working was replicating in my head what it felt like to feel confident and relaxed and what it felt like to laugh and enjoy myself around one person. I found that if I made myself remember that feeling and then mentally apply it like an overlay to a situation involving multiple people, that it was indeed possible to feel completely at ease and able to be myself in all my imperfections.
    That's a superb idea!!

    However, I think the idea comes apart at the seams with large groups of people. I suspect it always will, and that's okay.
    yeah, I tend to be the other way round... my risk is that I end up talking too much and then worrying that I've accidentally dominated the conversation and people think I'm some sorta ego maniac or something... so big groups are more comfortable for me because it's more likely that there'll be enough other people who are willing to talk a lot and interrupt me and stuff, so I talk about the right amount. In smaller groups though, I can feel quite sorta awkward because I can find myself with nobody else there who's comfy with talking much or interrupting me or whatever, it's easier to end up talking too much and thinking afterwards... I dunno, somehow it often seems to me that people find it easier to rapid fire/throw things out in a big group where it's all sorta multi-energy kinda thing, a brainstorming vibe can occur more easily, whilst in smaller groups people revert back to politeness and not interrupting, and I can realize with horror all of a sudden that these guys have just sat and let me talk solidly for ages... lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #27
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    I can't speak in groups of more than three people.

    My voice doesn't carry. I get trampled.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #28
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    1,297

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    yeah, I tend to be the other way round... my risk is that I end up talking too much and then worrying that I've accidentally dominated the conversation and people think I'm some sorta ego maniac or something... so big groups are more comfortable for me because it's more likely that there'll be enough other people who are willing to talk a lot and interrupt me and stuff, so I talk about the right amount. In smaller groups though, I can feel quite sorta awkward because I can find myself with nobody else there who's comfy with talking much or interrupting me or whatever, it's easier to end up talking too much and thinking afterwards... I dunno, somehow it often seems to me that people find it easier to rapid fire/throw things out in a big group where it's all sorta multi-energy kinda thing, a brainstorming vibe can occur more easily, whilst in smaller groups people revert back to politeness and not interrupting, and I can realize with horror all of a sudden that these guys have just sat and let me talk solidly for ages... lol
    (Am experiencing a deja vu of having a deja vu of this conversation before. Mind bending...)

    Anyway. I think in smaller groups there's sort of this expectation/natural inclination for a more turn-based kind of discussion. Since there are fewer people, there's more time and energy to the conversation. I think there might also be the "bursts of talking and then abrupt silence" thing going on with small groups. Where in the abrupt silence, everyone contemplates the next thing to say, and then another burst comes with another topic or a related topic then silence again. Sort of like ocean breakers.

    Where with larger groups, there's a consistent stream of discussion because the moments of silence are not synchronised with the group as a whole. You may have three people talking excitedly, and then they go quiet but immediately two other people pick up the slack, then another group, then the first group again. Of course it's not nearly that organised, just there's less energy being put into the group by each person so the discussion is more dispersed and consistent.

    I guess you could also relate it to mob mentality/hive-think. In that in a larger group, people are less likely to be polite and not interrupt because the responisibility for each person is dispersed throughout the group. Maybe in a larger group, the entirety of the group acts as a sort of external brain. Whereas in a smaller group you have each person's brain connecting to each others (and sometimes you have people who sort of pair off without consciously meaning to).


    This could all be hogwash.
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

  9. #29
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    I dunno... I just find that for me, personally, it's sorta a load off my shoulders that, should I fail to realize that I've been talking too much or that I'm rambling, there's bound to be someone else present in such a large group who has the nerve to point it out lol

    This ESFP guy used to keep inviting me out to places 'where people are', without really giving much thought as to what kinds of people they were, what kinds of events they were... the trouble with the things he dragged me to was that I ended up feeling not only socially inadequate but just generally inadequate as well, because his friends are largely high achievers, people of high social status and stuff, and of course it hardly did wonders for my confidence when the infamous "so what do you do?" question came and I had to say "nothing really, I don't work, I'm a single parent".

    In my case I also had the issue that 90% of my past is off limits for polite conversation. A guy mentioning that he went to an all girls' school, or relating to the experience some woman is talking about regarding giving birth, or having been married to a man... and without even going into gender territory there's my criminal past... these things don't go down very well... this is still an issue for me and I guess it always will be. But as time's gone by since I began my new life and I've built up a body of experiences and interests to talk about, I can generally redirect things away from talking about my past. It's a pain to have to do that as I'd always rather be open about it. I generally am in fact, about my shady/criminal/homeless past, cos you can pull it off with a "but I've turned around now and am a model citizen" and people applaud you for that, generally. But the gender stuff will never be smalltalk material!!

    This was just one of the things those guys just didn't take into account when pushing me out to socialize.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #30
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    8,559

    Default

    I am currently doing what Jack Flack has listed as a good thing to try. Aikido is slowly helping me interact with other people and the more I go, the better I get to know them. Also I get to improve myself with the help of others and in the end I may get a friend or two out of it. I'm also starting to take continued education classes where I have a strength that just needs application to bloom. I can admit to a little desire to be looked at in awe at my skills.

    Some of the social situations my roommate has tried to get me into has, on the other hand, failed as I really couldn't connect with a lot of those people. This resulted in a lot of people just looking at me weird and further defining me as an alien.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] NTs, the first word out of your mouth.
    By Natrushka in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-03-2015, 06:12 AM
  2. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 10-05-2013, 02:42 PM
  3. [NF] NFs, what gets you out of your head?
    By SilkRoad in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 02-22-2010, 01:58 PM
  4. Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-17-2009, 08:07 AM
  5. [MBTItm] What types help bring you out of a funk
    By fleurdujour in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 01:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO