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Birth Order and Intellectual Independence

Jack Flak

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A hypothesis has just occured to me:

First-borns and only children have greater intellectual independence, leading to conviction in judgment and higher skill in such things as debate.

Younger siblings rely heavily on older siblings for judgments, thus, on average, have reduced ability to think on their own.

This is purely concerned with environment, thus if children are raised separately, it doesn't apply.

What say you?
 

ajblaise

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I am a first-born, and I like to debate. I have two younger sisters, with the younger one being less outspoken than the middle one.

I'm not sure how childhood social life might effect this, I had a big group of friends as a kid, but think it had no effect on mental independence.
 

Ivy

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I can back it up anecdotally. I pretty much idolized my older brother and had to consciously form my own identity apart from him as a young adult. I had to decide whether I really liked music because I liked it, or because he liked it, things like that.

I have always kicked ass at debate (don't really do it much anymore because it's exhausting and I don't care to be right so much anymore), but even that was in part because he liked having a scrappy little sister who kicked ass.
 

Lateralus

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A hypothesis has just occured to me:

First-borns and only children have greater intellectual independence, leading to conviction in judgment and higher skill in such things as debate.

Younger siblings rely heavily on older siblings for judgments, thus, on average, have reduced ability to think on their own.

This is purely concerned with environment, thus if children are raised separately, it doesn't apply.

What say you?
I'm the oldest and obviously love to debate, but I have 7 younger siblings and 3 of them love to debate, as well...and they're the three youngest. That doesn't necessarily contradict your hypothesis, but I'd have to think on it for a while to figure out exactly why.
 
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Older siblings don't have the cute factor so they have to try to convince parents on their level. I know I was the only one who could compel my dad to do anything. He would sometimes remark to my mom later "I don't know how she got me to let her do such-and-such, I was going to say no."
 

Totenkindly

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A hypothesis has just occured to me:

First-borns and only children have greater intellectual independence, leading to conviction in judgment and higher skill in such things as debate.

Younger siblings rely heavily on older siblings for judgments, thus, on average, have reduced ability to think on their own.

This is purely concerned with environment, thus if children are raised separately, it doesn't apply.

What say you?

It's not a bad idea for a research project; but I think the conclusion is so broad as to be meaningless if it's only going to be abstractly/informally debated, and that there is also a multiplicity of factors that can impact intellectual independence.

What strateg(ies) would you use to properly isolate the variable you're theorizing about?

Right now, the responses here -- while interesting anecdotes -- are mostly just begging the question.
 

ajblaise

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I think first-borns might end up arguing with their parents more partly because since they are their parents first kid, they don't really know what they are doing, so the first-born will seize upon their child naivety and unsureness with argument to get what they want.
 

Jack Flak

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It's not a bad idea for a research project...What strateg(ies) would you use to properly isolate the variable you're theorizing about?
None. I've no interest in conducting a study, nor discovering a purpose for the resulting data. I'll leave that to an ENTP.

If my idea and the resulting contemplation by others results in a greater awareness of the nuances of the human psyche by anyone, I consider my mission accomplished.
 

ptgatsby

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It's not a bad idea for a research project; but I think the conclusion is so broad as to be meaningless if it's only going to be abstractly/informally debated, and that there is also a multiplicity of factors that can impact intellectual independence.

What strateg(ies) would you use to properly isolate the variable you're theorizing about?

Can I take credit for this? I so want to take credit for this :hug: Bah, I know I can't :D

(I actually have no idea how to isolate the environmental factors here! Perhaps age gap, assuming that older-older didn't step in like closer siblings... but that's weak, and you get into the resource issues again, etc.)
 

Thursday

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i am the only childz
 

Thursday

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As am I, for the record.

the two of us together, with legos and $5 between us ?
all hell breaking loose

what else does this imply - the only child thingy ?
 

Totenkindly

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If my idea and the resulting contemplation by others results in a greater awareness of the nuances of the human psyche by anyone, I consider my mission accomplished.

Uh... what nuances? :huh:

Your idea: The eldest child might be more intellectual independent (because he's the eldest).

Opposing idea: The eldest child reflects the parents values because s/he is expected to champion the family.

At this level of conversation, both sound believable. And both can be supported via anecdote.

Without a more rigorous approach/discussion, we've learned nothing.
 

Bella

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A hypothesis has just occured to me:

First-borns and only children have greater intellectual independence, leading to conviction in judgment and higher skill in such things as debate.

Younger siblings rely heavily on older siblings for judgments, thus, on average, have reduced ability to think on their own.

This is purely concerned with environment, thus if children are raised separately, it doesn't apply.

What say you?

In my family it is my brother, the youngest out of three, who is intellectualy independent. He also has the most eccentric personality. I think this had to do with him being allowed to just be because he was was the only boy.
 

Jack Flak

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...what else does this imply - the only child thingy ?
Another hypothesis? So much pressure. ;)

I did note in the OP that higher intellectual independence also applies to only children. I think it's further increased, because we have to "stand on our own ground" even more. Perhaps we also have less of a need to convince others of our position--But this is even more hypothetical than the OP.

(Being an only child leads to many other differences probably best discussed in a more general thread.)

In my family it is my brother, the youngest out of three, who is intellectualy independent. He also has the most eccentric personality. I think this had to do with him being allowed to just be because he was was the only boy.
How many years younger is he than the next-oldest sibling? This matters. I would say, completely off the top of my head, that a three to five year difference would have the greatest impact on intellectual independence.
 

entropie

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A hypothesis has just occured to me:

First-borns and only children have greater intellectual independence, leading to conviction in judgment and higher skill in such things as debate.

Younger siblings rely heavily on older siblings for judgments, thus, on average, have reduced ability to think on their own.

This is purely concerned with environment, thus if children are raised separately, it doesn't apply.

What say you?

I have a 15 year old sister and I am 25, so I was pretty much raised as single child. Your relation fits perfectly for my situation and my sister's aswell.

Intresting to see are the combinations, there are in my circle of friends. One friend was raised only child and he has a VERY strong conviction in judgement. While my girlfriend for example was raised as third child and had had, due to being a judgemental character, a very hard time with getting along with her family in the past. Her other character traits are Introversion, what pretty fits into the situation aswell.

Thought about birth order alot myself and I think there can be deep connection to it in relation with MBTI.

What would be really intresting are the mavericks in the theory. I myself was raised by two Introverted Sensors. My childhood was exemplary, I love my parents and I had everything a child needs. But I am pretty much Extrovert and sentences like "Our children are both the same, they always listen more to what their friends say than doing what is right" have grown a custom, within these walls here ..
 

Thursday

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i wonder if there is a formula for parents to children
my mom is an ISFP, my father ENTP
i am an INFJ

any ideas ?
 

dorareever

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I'm an only child and very independent intellectually. But then again I've been raised by an ENTP mother an an INTP father. I've always been encouraged to debating ideas, and trying to find my own. Maybe it would have been different with SJ's parents. But then again my SJ's babysitter spent lots of time with me and the only thing she accomplished was giving me clinical depression :D
 

Grayscale

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What say you?

I was a middle child and arguably the most independent (oldest son) followed by my older sister. my younger brother is the most family-oriented and similar to my parents out of the kids.
 
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