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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    and on a side note, not to belittle any eldest or only children posting here but being the way you are compared to your siblings (embodying the traits mentioned in the OP) is a result of several variables which can't be simplified down to mere birth order.
    Indeed, that goes without saying. I attempted to isolate one variable in the equation, temporarily ignoring the others. It's difficult to do so in a subject which disallows access to pure data. It is merely meant for contemplation.

  2. #42
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    I like your spirit here, Jack.

    Trying to develop a positive connection between birth order and personality is a curious egg to crack.

    I'd say my younger brother is fat with intellectual independence, as his reticule is firmly planted on developing himself outside of mainstream academia. With this same thought in tow, I could also argue that his bullheadedness towards this end renders him strangely bereft of independence, as his attitude creates a powerful weakness to the same mainstream culture he's trying to buck.

    Damn ENTJ.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    ...his reticule is firmly planted on developing himself outside of mainstream academia. With this same thought in tow, I could also argue that his bullheadedness towards this end renders him strangely bereft of independence, as his attitude creates a powerful weakness to the same mainstream culture he's trying to buck.
    If I were trying to argue my case...which I may be...I would say he lacks the internal conviction I speak of. His "convictions" are somewhat based on those around him, and are therefore dependent.

  4. #44
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    If I were trying to argue my case...which I may be...I would say he lacks the internal conviction I speak of. His "convictions" are somewhat based on those around him, and are therefore dependent.
    I like this statement.

    Is it ever possible to generate thought systems that are truly independent of external convictions taught to us?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Is it ever possible to generate thought systems that are truly independent of external convictions taught to us?
    I say "No." It's a question of degree.

  6. #46
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I'm definitely more intellectually independent than my brother (not by that much though), but I don't think that would have changed had our genes been traded.

    He's an ENTP, I'm an INFJ. I'd say it's hard to be more intellectually independent than an INxx type unless you're another INxx type.

    Also, I think these results might be skewed because lots of people here are INxx.

  7. #47
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    My dad was the last of 5 and far & away the most intellectually independent of the entire bunch. Sorry mang.
    Extremes: Need To Pursue

    I like my cars fast, my music loud, and my women even faster and louder!

  8. #48
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Would others agree that intellectual independence (such that this thread offers) is more commonly expressed in introverts than extroverts?

  9. #49
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    The personal experiences of those in this thread are...basically irrelevant in making any assessment, unless we hear 10,000 more stories. To get any meaningful scientific average, the number of "test cases" would have to be large enough to outweigh the other variables such as MBTI type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Would others agree that intellectual independence (such that this thread offers) is more commonly expressed in introverts than extroverts?
    Yes.

  10. #50
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Are you ascribing this probability to function preference then, Jack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The personal experiences of those in this thread are...basically irrelevant in making any assessment, unless we hear 10,000 more stories. To get any meaningful scientific average, the number of "test cases" would have to be large enough to outweigh the other variables such as MBTI type.
    Agreed.

    Even then, the criteria is pretty subjective. We are working with indefinite/unempirical terminology.

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