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  1. #31
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    ...but that's a good point too... ^^^

    I guess it largely depends on the attitudes of the parents too. Do you have free spirited parents that encourage freedom, or do you have conservative, stern parents who prioritize instilling their own values?
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  2. #32
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I'm the oldest, and definitely the more independent thinker. My sister would watch me argue with my parents, trying to get my point across (I didn't care if I got punished, but I was going to make sure they understood where I was coming from.), while she would just agree with whatever they said, even if her actual stance was different. It wasn't important to her to be understood. It was more important to her not to be grounded, so she could talk on the phone and go out with her friends. I don't know if it's because of birth order, though. I think it's just the difference in our personalities.

  3. #33
    señor member colmena's Avatar
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    I think there's very little difference between my older brother and I for intellectual independence.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I'm the oldest, and definitely the more independent thinker. My sister would watch me argue with my parents, trying to get my point across (I didn't care if I got punished, but I was going to make sure they understood where I was coming from.), while she would just agree with whatever they said, even if her actual stance was different. It wasn't important to her to be understood. It was more important to her not to be grounded, so she could talk on the phone and go out with her friends. I don't know if it's because of birth order, though. I think it's just the difference in our personalities.
    But does that actually mean you're a more independent thinker, or does it just mean you're more stubborn??
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  5. #35
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But does that actually mean you're a more independent thinker, or does it just mean you're more stubborn??
    Yeah, well, I am that, as well. I'm not sure what the OP means by independent thinker, but since I'm the INTP in a family of SJs, just about all my thoughts were radical to them, and I didn't know anything about MBTI until I was grown. I tended to take things situation by situation, evaluating whether X actually made sense, where they tended to weigh it against what society expects. Not knocking SJs in general, just saying that my thoughts and theirs didn't mesh very often.

  6. #36
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    HAHAHAHAHA no.

    For this to hold true, my parents would have had to have had some trouble with a time machine and a condom.

    The older sibling is certainly more vocal, however. And by 'vocal' I mean 'whiny.'
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    i have adjusted your hypothesis to something more accurately reflecting reality....
    Do I detect the debate skill of a "baby of the family?" j/k I take what seems to be disagreement with my hypothesis into consideration.

    My hypothesis (and it is just that), in another way of speaking, refers to trust. When we are young, we trust our parents, and though I've never had an older sibling, I imagine they are trusted too. With the trust in someone else's conviction, one need not necessarily make one's own decision. It is the addition of elder siblings to the equation which I was contemplating.

  8. #38
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    i have adjusted your hypothesis to something more accurately reflecting reality.

    that's like calling the first person to construct a computer the only one able to or with a chance think independently in the field that ever existed and all subsequent updates, upgrades or changes were done by people of lesser ability to think on their own or innovate. your argument about one group of people relying on the judgement of another group and thus becoming unable to judge wisely/appropriately/correctly/strongly themselves just seems really silly.

    what first borns actually do is provide a standard to which further offspring are judged which says nothing about ability or performance. they have more independence in determining the standard but that's about as far as i would go in drawing conslusions of the type you are trying to draw. personality more so than birth order affects what you're talking about.
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    Last edited by SillySapienne; 09-19-2008 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Clarification :)
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  9. #39
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    My understanding was that the first-borns are usually more supportive of the status quo, while younger siblings are more the rebels. There's several other factors to consider.


    For the record: I'm the youngest of two, and I seem to enjoy intellectual discourse more than my older sibling. As far as indendence goes: my sibling has a more visible external sense of independence, wheras mine is more internal is nature.

  10. #40
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    and on a side note, not to belittle any eldest or only children posting here but being the way you are compared to your siblings (embodying the traits mentioned in the OP) is a result of several variables which can't be simplified down to mere birth order.

    i would consider myself fairly intelligent, i also have brown eyes. is there a correlation?
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