Mbti and Child Rearing

[Mole]

Mbti types are fake psychometrics. And mbti types are psychologically damaging. So it is important to present an alternative to mbti types. And child rearing practices over history are a far better explanation of psychological types than mbti.

Here is a discussion of child rearing practices over history that has been suppressed -

Which God we worship depends on our upbringing. Some of us had the sacrificial form of child rearing; some of us had an abusive form of child rearing; some of us had a controlling form of child rearing; and some of had the helping form of child rearing.

Each form of child rearing leads to its own personality type. The sacrificial form of child rearing leads to the paranoid personality, because having seen a sibling sacrificed, we wonder if we will be next; the abusive form of child rearing leads to the blaming personality; the controlling form of child rearing leads to the rule bound personality; and the helping form of child rearing leads to the creative and empathic personality.

Each form of child rearing had its ascendancy in a particular historical/economic period. And in prosperous nations today we are starting to move into the helping form of child rearing.

And the abusive form is an improvement on the sacrificial form; and the controlling form is an improvement on the abusive form; and the helping form is an improvement on the controlling form.

So the key to understanding personality is child rearing rather than mbti.

 

[Litsnob]

Not too many bites on this one, Mole. I am interested to know why you chose Mole as your avatar and name.

Child rearing practices have always been somewhat subjected to fads. There was the idea that picking up a crying baby spoiled it. Then there was the idea that children should be praised and told they are wonderful and capable of everything. Culture, religion and time period all factor into it and I don't know very many people, if any, who know and used their MBTI type to determine how they would raise their children. I'm willing to bet there are more idiots using horoscopes than MBTI. I was the type of mother I was destined to be, based on who I am and the type of child I produced. Dynamics were affected by the type of parent my spouse was. The way I was raised affected my own choices. It turned out that my child and I are better in tune with each other than my ex-spouse was with our child, although he was still a very good father or tried to be. His ability to understand our child began to fail the older the child became. Now that our child is an adult, he has learned from his mistakes. If we had used MBTI I think it may actually have helped. My ex really needed something to show him that his child was not must a mini version of him. There may certainly be other routes to that understanding but those were not readily available either. My telling him this fact certainly didn't accomplish anything.

 

[Mole]

Not too many bites on this one, Mole. I am interested to know why you chose Mole as your avatar and name.

Child rearing practices have always been somewhat subjected to fads. There was the idea that picking up a crying baby spoiled it. Then there was the idea that children should be praised and told they are wonderful and capable of everything. Culture, religion and time period all factor into it and I don't know very many people, if any, who know and used their MBTI type to determine how they would raise their children. I'm willing to bet there are more idiots using horoscopes than MBTI. I was the type of mother I was destined to be, based on who I am and the type of child I produced. Dynamics were affected by the type of parent my spouse was. The way I was raised affected my own choices. It turned out that my child and I are better in tune with each other than my ex-spouse was with our child, although he was still a very good father or tried to be. His ability to understand our child began to fail the older the child became. Now that our child is an adult, he has learned from his mistakes. If we had used MBTI I think it may actually have helped. My ex really needed something to show him that his child was not must a mini version of him. There may certainly be other routes to that understanding but those were not readily available either. My telling him this fact certainly didn't accomplish anything.

There is a history of childhood related to child rearing and prosperity, from the sacrificial form of child rearing where we sacrificed children in the foundations of temples, to the abusive form of child rearing, to the authoritarian form of child rearing, to the helping form of child rearing. Each form of child rearing an improvement on the one before.

And I chose Mole and my friends, the Water Rat, Toad, and Badger, as a template for the internet. Just as Mole and his friends liked to picnic on the river, so we picnic on the internet.

 

[Litsnob]

There is a history of childhood related to child rearing and prosperity, from the sacrificial form of child rearing where we sacrificed children in the foundations of temples, to the abusive form of child rearing, to the authoritarian form of child rearing, to the helping form of child rearing. Each form of child rearing an improvement on the one before.

I am not sure that there is a steady line of only improvement. Modern helicopter parenting or the all praise all the time methods are flawed though at least not immediately cruel. The parenting is well intentioned but the results may be damaging.

 

[Litsnob]

I like this topic. I was hoping more people had responded by now.

 

[Mole]

There is a history of childhood related to child rearing and prosperity, from the sacrificial form of child rearing where we sacrificed children in the foundations of temples, to the abusive form of child rearing, to the authoritarian form of child rearing, to the helping form of child rearing. Each form of child rearing an improvement on the one before.

I am not sure that there is a steady line of only improvement. Modern helicopter parenting or the all praise all the time methods are flawed though at least not immediately cruel. The parenting is well intentioned but the results may be damaging.

Yes, the various forms of child rearing do exist today and correlate with the properity of the county. However in liberal democratic societies that are prosperous the helping form of child rearing is coming to the fore.

In the helping form of child rearing the parent helps the child achieve their life goals. And such a form of child rearing tends to give us children who are empathic and creative.

 

[Litsnob]

Yes, the various forms of child rearing do exist today and correlate with the properity of the county. However in liberal democratic societies that are prosperous the helping form of child rearing is coming to the fore.

In the helping form of child rearing the parent helps the child achieve their life goals. And such a form of child rearing tends to give us children who are empathic and creative.

It seems to me that there are variations on the 'helping' form. After all, what is helpful is subjective. But generally parents today in liberal democratic societies do what they think will give their children the best boost in life. These societies, when they are wealthy enough to strive for more than basic survival or have sufficient leisure time, also tend to expose children to plenty of arts and literature which also foster empathy and creativity.

 

[Mole]

It seems to me that there are variations on the 'helping' form. After all, what is helpful is subjective. But generally parents today in liberal democratic societies do what they think will give their children the best boost in life. These societies, when they are wealthy enough to strive for more than basic survival or have sufficient leisure time, also tend to expose children to plenty of arts and literature which also foster empathy and creativity.

Yes, and just as there are windows of opportunity for growth in the womb, so there are windows of opportunity for growth in the baby, child, adolescent, adult, the old. For instance, there is a window opportunity to naturally learn more than one language as a child, and once that window is passed the opportunity for naturally learning languages is passed. And there are many other windows of learning opening, right up to puberty and beyond.

And parents are in a unique position to help their children achieve their life goals, by helping them to take the opportunity of their leaning windows as they occur.

 

[Shaedow]

Are each of these phases so distinct?
Would there be 'in-between' phases where a child is raised with traits of both parenting methods?

Also what causes the natural progression through these phases? would it be one generation learning from the mistakes of another?
And I'm curious, where is the helper form leading the next generations?

??? -> Sacrificial form -> paranoid children -> abusive form -> Blaming children -> controlling form -> rule bound children -> helping form -> creative/empathic children -> ???

 

[Mole]

Are each of these phases so distinct?
Would there be 'in-between' phases where a child is raised with traits of both parenting methods?

Also what causes the natural progression through these phases? would it be one generation learning from the mistakes of another?
And I'm curious, where is the helper form leading the next generations?

??? -> Sacrificial form -> paranoid children -> abusive form -> Blaming children -> controlling form -> rule bound children -> helping form -> creative/empathic children -> ???

These phases are distinct for the purposes of analysis. On the ground they overlap and indeed different phases co-exist.

Also the phases are painted with a very broad brush to create the big picture before we get into the details.

The helping form of child rearing helps the child achieve their life goals. The life goals are windows of opportunity, like for instance, the window where we learn our mother tongue or tongues without any conscious effort.

Life goals form a continuum of development. In the womb we can see the development of the foetus into a baby, well this development continues into childhood, adolescence, middle age, and old age, right up to the moment we die.

So the helping form of child rearing follows the natural developmental progression, it doesn't interrupt the development but facilitates each learning step.

 

[Shaedow]

These phases are distinct for the purposes of analysis. On the ground they overlap and indeed different phases co-exist.

Also the phases are painted with a very broad brush to create the big picture before we get into the details.

The helping form of child rearing helps the child achieve their life goals. The life goals are windows of opportunity, like for instance, the window where we learn our mother tongue or tongues without any conscious effort.

Life goals form a continuum of development. In the womb we can see the development of the foetus into a baby, well this development continues into childhood, adolescence, middle age, and old age, right up to the moment we die.

So the helping form of child rearing follows the natural developmental progression, it doesn't interrupt the development but facilitates each learning step.

The thing is, I don't think we have necessarily reach that idealogical outcome of children who are well rounded.

If the current parenting shift is within the 'helper' group I am not seeing the children of my generation and younger as enlightened creative individuals who have and are actively reaching for their full potential. There is instead a sense of apathy and anxiousness.

I see parents who are helping, yet 'over' helping. In the sense that children are attending many classes yet have no time to 'play'. Children are given everything they desire when they want it. Children don't experience failure as they are all given participation awards. Children aren't expected to do as many chores or endure the responsibilities our parents before had. Children who are older aren't given room for their independence. The parents are protecting their children, to the point children are unable to make mistakes and learn from them.

Throw in technology and a consumer society, there are many avenues we are faced with which are highly addictive and distract us.

What I see is children who expect life to be easy (as they were given everything) and give up when things get hard. I see many in my generation many who want to follow their passion, yet aren't willing to work hard for it.
I also see a culture that does not take personal responsibility. YOLO, political correctness, insurance, etc.
I see technology replacing real face to face interaction, with social media designed to be addictive and distracting. Many are losing their connection with one another and feel alone.

I think were we are heading

Helping parent -> Creative/empathetic child (or perhaps the entitled?) ->Distracted/addicted parents -> Abandoned Child

I may just be pessimistic lol
This isn't just based on my own thoughts as that would be highly subjective.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I found an interesting video which spans across our current generations:

 

[Mole]

The thing is, I don't think we have necessarily reach that idealogical outcome of children who are well rounded.

If the current parenting shift is within the 'helper' group I am not seeing the children of my generation and younger as enlightened creative individuals who have and are actively reaching for their full potential. There is instead a sense of apathy and anxiousness.

I see parents who are helping, yet 'over' helping. In the sense that children are attending many classes yet have no time to 'play'. Children are given everything they desire when they want it. Children don't experience failure as they are all given participation awards. Children aren't expected to do as many chores or endure the responsibilities our parents before had. Children who are older aren't given room for their independence. The parents are protecting their children, to the point children are unable to make mistakes and learn from them.

Throw in technology and a consumer society, there are many avenues we are faced with which are highly addictive and distract us.

What I see is children who expect life to be easy (as they were given everything) and give up when things get hard. I see many in my generation many who want to follow their passion, yet aren't willing to work hard for it.
I also see a culture that does not take personal responsibility. YOLO, political correctness, insurance, etc.
I see technology replacing real face to face interaction, with social media designed to be addictive and distracting. Many are losing their connection with one another and feel alone.

I think were we are heading

Helping parent -> Creative/empathetic child (or perhaps the entitled?) ->Distracted/addicted parents -> Abandoned Child

I may just be pessimistic lol
This isn't just based on my own thoughts as that would be highly subjective.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I found an interesting video which spans across our current generations:

Yes, I think you are right. My sister and I had a childhood of remarkable freedom and care. We were well looked after, and we were free to roam the Bush and our country town. As children we would plan and carry out group projects, and as a big group we would go on long train trips to the city or country towns, or we would take day long bicycle trips. And of course we always made our own way to school.

These memories always remain with me: the extraordinary beauty of the Bush, the valleys, and the creeks, the canoes we built to sail in the creek, the pony we rode in the gymkhanas, not to mention our lovely family dog, and all the books.

 

[Shaedow]

Yes, I think you are right. My sister and I had a childhood of remarkable freedom and care. We were well looked after, and we were free to roam the Bush and our country town. As children we would plan and carry out group projects, and as a big group we would go on long train trips to the city or country towns, or we would take day long bicycle trips. And of course we always made our own way to school.

These memories always remain with me: the extraordinary beauty of the Bush, the valleys, and the creeks, the canoes we built to sail in the creek, the pony we rode in the gymkhanas, not to mention our lovely family dog, and all the books.

That sounds like a really adventurous childhood you had
Do you think this freedom you had to grow/explore/create was beneficial for you and the person you grew into?



I did have some freedom growing up. I don't think to the same extent. I grew up in the suburbs and my days weren't overly structured. I had the free time to play with my siblings, come up with games, use our imagination, even cycle around the neighbour hood. I lived opposite a large school so there was countless house exploring it and hiding from one another.
I think this has been beneficial for myself. It has allowed me to know where my interests are and gave me a chance to be more comfortable in my own skin. I was not hindered by who I was.

The drawback with my parents parenting style was they tended towards yelling or smacking to enforce rules. Often such rules weren't well explained, especially the reason behind them. Often it was 'because we don't understand is why we need to listen." or "you aren't an adult, on adults can do x thing.'
This has made going against my parent's 'scary' and as a result I am more likely to follow rules/authority and avoid conflict as I perceive it as too risky.

The other drawback is my parents aren't always respectful towards one another and us children when in conflict. They can be overbearing and will justify themselves. As a consequence I have not learnt to be assertive and to have healthy boundaries. I have been lucky in life this has not been a big issue for me, but is something I am now learning so I can better communicate my needs in my own relationship and take better responsibility for myself.



I am interested in your thoughts, what do you think the first parenting styles was (more the parenting style when humans lived in hunter gatherer groups)?

What I found interesting there is an african tribe who live this hunter gather life style. One thing I noticed which is completely different to my experience growing up or what I see around me in society, when the tribe is to make a decision every individual gets to have a say and be considered, even the children.

I get a sense this is great for children to learn their voice matters, how to make decisions, and the importance/responsibility of decision making. What do you, or others, think about this? Would this be something that would be found in the helper parenting style?

 

[Mole]

That sounds like a really adventurous childhood you had
Do you think this freedom you had to grow/explore/create was beneficial for you and the person you grew into?
I did have some freedom growing up. I don't think to the same extent. I grew up in the suburbs and my days weren't overly structured. I had the free time to play with my siblings, come up with games, use our imagination, even cycle around the neighbour hood. I lived opposite a large school so there was countless house exploring it and hiding from one another.
I think this has been beneficial for myself. It has allowed me to know where my interests are and gave me a chance to be more comfortable in my own skin. I was not hindered by who I was.

The drawback with my parents parenting style was they tended towards yelling or smacking to enforce rules. Often such rules weren't well explained, especially the reason behind them. Often it was 'because we don't understand is why we need to listen." or "you aren't an adult, on adults can do x thing.'
This has made going against my parent's 'scary' and as a result I am more likely to follow rules/authority and avoid conflict as I perceive it as too risky.

The other drawback is my parents aren't always respectful towards one another and us children when in conflict. They can be overbearing and will justify themselves. As a consequence I have not learnt to be assertive and to have healthy boundaries. I have been lucky in life this has not been a big issue for me, but is something I am now learning so I can better communicate my needs in my own relationship and take better responsibility for myself.
I am interested in your thoughts, what do you think the first parenting styles was (more the parenting style when humans lived in hunter gatherer groups)?

What I found interesting there is an african tribe who live this hunter gather life style. One thing I noticed which is completely different to my experience growing up or what I see around me in society, when the tribe is to make a decision every individual gets to have a say and be considered, even the children.

I get a sense this is great for children to learn their voice matters, how to make decisions, and the importance/responsibility of decision making. What do you, or others, think about this? Would this be something that would be found in the helper parenting style?

Hunter Gatherers lived in traditional tribes with a spoken culture, by contrast we live as individuals in a literate culture.

In a tribal village with a spoken culture all are within earshot and as a result all members share the same feelings at the same time. We can see this in traditional tribes in Papua New Guinea today.

By contrast we do something that is extraordinary to spoken tribes, we read alone, emotionally disengaged from those around us.

However interesting this is, this is more interesting: we learn to speak our mother tongue at home naturally, intuitively - the first culture we learn is a spoken culture. Then the State orders us by law to leave our home and go to a special institution with specially trained teachers to learn to read and write, to become literate.

Almost no one learns to read and write naturally, intuitively, at home by themselves, almost all of us are compelled by State Law to go to school to learn to read and write because literacy is not natural, literacy is not intuitive, but literacy gives us a great gift and that is the gift of counter-intuitive thinking, which forms the basis of the modern world.

So the phylogenesis of the individual follows the phylogenesis of society. The microcosm in the macrocosm.

And if this wasn't enough we are undergoing another transformation, because just as we learn our mother tongue intuitively, naturally at home, we learn to use the telephone, the radio, the television, and the mobile phone, and the computer, naturally, intuitively at home without any State Law or special institutions.

So the electronic media are giving us a new eculture not unlike our original spoken culture.

So Typology Central is our etribe in the global village, where we are in emotional contact in real time across the globe, not unlike the traditional village.

This is all set out in more interesting detail in http://robynbacken.com/text/nw_research.pdf

 

[Shaedow]

I will say, you have given a lot of food for thought.

Hunter Gatherers lived in traditional tribes with a spoken culture, by contrast we live as individuals in a literate culture.

In a tribal village with a spoken culture all are within earshot and as a result all members share the same feelings at the same time. We can see this in traditional tribes in Papua New Guinea today.

By contrast we do something that is extraordinary to spoken tribes, we read alone, emotionally disengaged from those around us.

Never thought of it like that, smaller tribes sharing the same feelings.
Is this emotional disengagement what allows the concept of 'I' to form? I would imagine being immersed in a culture where I shared the same feelings as others would give me a 'we' perspective in which I could only define 'who I am' in terms of where I fit in the group or my relationships between members.

I am guessing these members of a tribe would not fair well, or feel right, if they were separated for some reason from their tribe. This does give me a different perspective on what it means for some to be banished.


So when tribes reach a certain size would this then mean they are no longer able to feel as one community?
Would it be more like a boiling pot where different feelings boil and spread out along the surface?

I do wonder if language came about as a tool too organise such a large groups.

However interesting this is, this is more interesting: we learn to speak our mother tongue at home naturally, intuitively - the first culture we learn is a spoken culture. Then the State orders us by law to leave our home and go to a special institution with specially trained teachers to learn to read and write, to become literate.

Almost no one learns to read and write naturally, intuitively, at home by themselves, almost all of us are compelled by State Law to go to school to learn to read and write because literacy is not natural, literacy is not intuitive, but literacy gives us a great gift and that is the gift of counter-intuitive thinking, which forms the basis of the modern world.

That is interesting.
I am curious how this affects and shapes the brain. Essentially the fundamental differences that shape everything we understand as we have learnt literacy and numeracy.

I am aware there is a tribe in the amazon where their language consisted of very few words. Meaning was distinguished based how words were said. What I find most interesting is they have no words for counting. They either have 'one' or 'some', but not 1, 2, 3... etc.

Such concepts are ingrained in my brain. Life would be fundamentally experienced differently if I had no such concept of numbers, or zero, or even negative numbers.

The more interesting aspect, literacy is not a natural process, yet we can learn it. It only exists because it has become a part of human culture. Without that we could not read, we could not write. It's kind of like culture takes on it's own life beyond us individuals, where it has begun to form a memory by documenting moments of human significance which can be built upon.

So the phylogenesis of the individual follows the phylogenesis of society. The microcosm in the macrocosm.

And if this wasn't enough we are undergoing another transformation, because just as we learn our mother tongue intuitively, naturally at home, we learn to use the telephone, the radio, the television, and the mobile phone, and the computer, naturally, intuitively at home without any State Law or special institutions.

So the electronic media are giving us a new eculture not unlike our original spoken culture.

So Typology Central is our etribe in the global village, where we are in emotional contact in real time across the globe, not unlike the traditional village.

These devices are platforms which we fill and connect through.
I do think this is great we can connect across the globe. I do find there differences between eculture interesting also.

There is a youtube video I watched which is interesting however it may be taking us on a bit of a tangent.
It's essentially based on how our user history on google/facebook/etc. is used to show an individual what they are likely to be interested in on their news feed/search, and also removing anything else.
I think this is a potential problem hindering this global connection as information is feeding a persons 'bubble' to enforce a perspective held of the world, different from others.

This is all set out in more interesting detail in http://robynbacken.com/text/nw_research.pdf

I will further have to have a look into this.


I am wondering (and binging it back to topic ), is MBTI type limited to only our current society/culture?
Would we find MBTI types in these traditional tribes, or other points in time?
Also does the frequency of certain MBTI types change as culture shifts and parenting styles shifts?

 

[Mole]

I am wondering (and binging it back to topic ), is MBTI type limited to only our current society/culture?
Would we find MBTI types in these traditional tribes, or other points in time?
Also does the frequency of certain MBTI types change as culture shifts and parenting styles shifts?

We don't know because the author of Psychological Types, Carl Jung, from which MBTI was plagiarised wrote that his book was based on no empirical evidence, and in 75 years no random, double blind experiments have been done with MBTI.

MBTI has the same truth value as astrology. It uses exactly the same techniques as astrology in order to be plausible.

 

[LightSun]

Did you have good parenting, a few close friends in which you could perhaps rely on, or else another adult in your own life that made this great change or molding of yourself?

 

[LightSun]

Wouldn't it be great that as children we were allowed to develop our gifts? Wouldn't it be great if we were tested as children to discover our natural gifts? Wouldn't it be great for parents to allow children to come into their own and not try to change or control the child's natural river bed of growth & development? To many tines parents seek to change, control, or alter a child's natural development. This upsets "flow". This upsets balance. This upsets the natural order of things. This is why I am for parental training as well as child development courses to be implemented. Parents can "warp" their children so easily out of profound ignorance
bless
Parents today are overwhelmed with having children. Subconsciously children will pick up on the distorted actions and behaviors of their parenting. This is why as adults we do many of the behaviors of our parents, almost against our wills. We mimicked what we saw. Even if they WANT to be good, and rectify the mistakes of their upbringing, they still will be subconsciously affected. Thank god. There is something called resiliency. It says one out of three will survive and overcome a dysfunctional household. LightSun
bless
“I believe all have gifts. If they are allowed to become in essence and manifest in our lives, we will be happy, content, have good self esteem and understand our place in our universe. Parents do not understand this entirely. They project their expectations, which is unfair. We are as a seedling and if allowed coming into our own being shall grow straight as well strong to our sun such as a mighty, mighty tree.
bless
But parents, media, society give too many messages of what we are supposed to be doing that it is hard to find our own essence. if we do find this magnificent part in ourselves we shall indeed be very happy. We must use our gift, live it, and breathe and come to the being we were meant to become." Also forgiveness is very hard. I will say i've learned proper boundaries with father. i shall set him straight if he chooses to be domineering. I do communicate with dad, but it isn't pleasant for me. See, my emotions are such as anxiety and he complains, It is toxic to my being. But i do have an intelligent, cordial, polite relationship with my father."

 

[LightSun]

"If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy.

If a child learns to feel shame, he learns to feel guilty.
If a child lives with sarcasm, he learns to be mean.
If a child lives with manipulative parents, he learns to be manipulative.

If a child lives with emotional abuse, he will learn to withdraw.
If a child lives with tolerance, he learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement he learns confidence

If a child lives with praise, he learns to appreciate.
He a child lives with fairness, he learns justice.
If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith.

If a child lives with approval, he learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship, he learns to find love in the world." Unknown

 

[Mole]

Wouldn't it be great that as children we were allowed to develop our gifts? Wouldn't it be great if we were tested as children to discover our natural gifts? Wouldn't it be great for parents to allow children to come into their own and not try to change or control the child's natural river bed of growth & development? To many tines parents seek to change, control, or alter a child's natural development. This upsets "flow". This upsets balance. This upsets the natural order of things. This is why I am for parental training as well as child development courses to be implemented. Parents can "warp" their children so easily out of profound ignorance
bless
Parents today are overwhelmed with having children. Subconsciously children will pick up on the distorted actions and behaviors of their parenting. This is why as adults we do many of the behaviors of our parents, almost against our wills. We mimicked what we saw. Even if they WANT to be good, and rectify the mistakes of their upbringing, they still will be subconsciously affected. Thank god. There is something called resiliency. It says one out of three will survive and overcome a dysfunctional household. LightSun
bless
“I believe all have gifts. If they are allowed to become in essence and manifest in our lives, we will be happy, content, have good self esteem and understand our place in our universe. Parents do not understand this entirely. They project their expectations, which is unfair. We are as a seedling and if allowed coming into our own being shall grow straight as well strong to our sun such as a mighty, mighty tree.
bless
But parents, media, society give too many messages of what we are supposed to be doing that it is hard to find our own essence. if we do find this magnificent part in ourselves we shall indeed be very happy. We must use our gift, live it, and breathe and come to the being we were meant to become." Also forgiveness is very hard. I will say i've learned proper boundaries with father. i shall set him straight if he chooses to be domineering. I do communicate with dad, but it isn't pleasant for me. See, my emotions are such as anxiety and he complains, It is toxic to my being. But i do have an intelligent, cordial, polite relationship with my father."

I couldn't agree more, but it is important we move beyond wish fulfilment and starts to understand our situation so we can take effective action.

The first thing is to gain perspective by studying the history of childhood, the second is to effectively criminalise child abuse as has been done in Ireland and Australia.

It is understandable that those who have been subject to abuse or neglect as children seek relief from their suffering in wish fulfilment as adults. And this is the relief mbti provides, it provides wish fulfilment, and so betrays the suffering of children.