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  1. #81
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    It is irritating (and sad) that we sometimes feel we have to step in when others in our space aren't doing their part to make it comfortable for us. But it is a fact of life, whether we are being inconvenienced by others' children, pets or their own annoying bad habits, that we live with all kinds of other people and we will sometimes be unhappy about that.

    The satisfying truth is we don't HAVE to do anything. We can walk away and save our energy for more important things if that will make us happier.

    It's a choice!

    So my thought is to either do it because it's what you want to do and then not complain about doing what you want to do. Or don't do it and don't allow it to affect your peace of mind. .

    Makes it simple from my perspective.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #82
    seńor member colmena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are?

    I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this
    It likely sounds a passive-aggressive attack. It might be difficult for a parent to respond to calmly if this is how it's taken.

    It might be worth bending down to the child and calmly asking him/her to not tug on your leg. If the parent is nearby, they ought to step in after this. If they don't, I'd proceed to ask where the parent is and have a chat.
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  3. #83
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    You're not rude, they're exercising their projection muscles.

    *My kids not doing anything wrong*
    *Why are you making my child out to be a villain*
    *Well what can I do about it anyway*

    Oh and my sister has sworn before not to return to my house. I upset her son by raising my voice about him playing with the cat's litter tray. Apparently we shouldn't have had it somewhere he could reach. The fact that he was allowed to roam the house unsupervised whilst my sister slept is irrelevant.. apparently...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #84
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Kids are kids.

    You simply can't take one isolated incidence and say you know what goes on with some random kid, their parents' abilities, etc.. Too many variables.


    Their brains are different and growing and forming new connections, their sleep drastically affects their behaviour (imagine getting the energy to get through the day PLUS grow your body... if they get one bad night, it shows the next day), environmental factors, stress levels of interpersonals of grown-ups they live with who don't tell them things because they're too young...

    My sweetheart INFP brother, now 17 and the most perfect guy I could dream up as a brother, was a terror when he was 6 and on medication for an illness; the medication affected his behaviour. Literally, no joke, my dad had to teach me how to pin him down for my safety even though I was 5 years older.

    There's nothing wrong with respectfully telling a kid what's cool/not cool, but seriously... they don't grow up in vacuums. They have to grow somewhere, just like we all did.
    Great post. I bolded the part I want to respond to specifically. This was my poorly-made point in posting the anecdote of my son getting all up in some lady's grill at World Market. It was very annoying, I'm sure, and it's possible she thought "geez, what an ill-behaved brat. Too bad his parents let him run wild, he thinks he owns the place." But she's wrong. I used to think the worst of parents making crappy choices in public places; after all, I was an awesome nanny and I managed to keep the child I was responsible for reigned in at all times.

    It was not until AFTER I became a parent that I realized that once the baby is born, you're on the hook, and you don't get off the hook... well, in some ways, ever. Not that I mind being on the hook, but it is very different from being in charge of a child as their nanny or sitter or sister. It's a matter of setting policy rather than simply carrying it out for a few hours a day. And you've got 18+years to be in charge of another human being at all times. You're bound to screw up at some point, and you can bet that there will be a store (or school, or playground, or family) full of people judging you when you do.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  5. #85
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I'm with you Ivy and co, I don't judge parents by an isolated incident that I happen to see in public of their kids' behaviour. I know my kids act up at times and I've often thought to myself, y'know, at what point do people quit blaming parents for every choice a kid makes, and start acknowledging that this person is a human being with their own mind and personality and you as the parent do not have radio control over them?

    I've known middle class kids brought up with all the right values and stuff, and yet they've become drug addicts and alcoholics. I was neglected and couldn't really have had much worse of an upbringing than I had and yet I'm considered a pillar of the community (embarrassingly! lol). At some point a person starts to make their own choices and you can't keep on blaming parents all the damn time. I've brought my kids up with strong discipline, I've never given into tantrums and never tolerated bad behaviour, always taught them consideration for others and honesty and stuff. And yet still they sometimes lie, sometimes fight, sometimes do the opposite of what they're told, sometimes act up in public, sometimes embarrass the hell outta me.

    Especially when kids go to school most of the day in most cases, the influence of the parent, the older the kid gets, becomes weaker and weaker and just a drop in an ocean of other influences.

    So yeah, there's no use in judging the parents when kids get on your nerves in public.

    HOWEVER as I said earlier, I still reserve the right to tell a kid to get the hell outta my way or look where they're damn well going if they run full tilt at me in a store yelling and stuff. I don't see it as any reflection on the parents, it's just my instinctive response to someone pissing me off. I'd do the same if it were an adult.

    But unless they really are a pain in the ass I mostly likely hardly notice.
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  6. #86
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I'm with you Ivy and co, I don't judge parents by an isolated incident that I happen to see in public of their kids' behaviour. I know my kids act up at times and I've often thought to myself, y'know, at what point do people quit blaming parents for every choice a kid makes, and start acknowledging that this person is a human being with their own mind and personality and you as the parent do not have radio control over them?

    I've known middle class kids brought up with all the right values and stuff, and yet they've become drug addicts and alcoholics. I was neglected and couldn't really have had much worse of an upbringing than I had and yet I'm considered a pillar of the community (embarrassingly! lol). At some point a person starts to make their own choices and you can't keep on blaming parents all the damn time. I've brought my kids up with strong discipline, I've never given into tantrums and never tolerated bad behaviour, always taught them consideration for others and honesty and stuff. And yet still they sometimes lie, sometimes fight, sometimes do the opposite of what they're told, sometimes act up in public, sometimes embarrass the hell outta me.

    Especially when kids go to school most of the day in most cases, the influence of the parent, the older the kid gets, becomes weaker and weaker and just a drop in an ocean of other influences.

    So yeah, there's no use in judging the parents when kids get on your nerves in public.

    HOWEVER as I said earlier, I still reserve the right to tell a kid to get the hell outta my way or look where they're damn well going if they run full tilt at me in a store yelling and stuff. I don't see it as any reflection on the parents, it's just my instinctive response to someone pissing me off. I'd do the same if it were an adult.

    But unless they really are a pain in the ass I mostly likely hardly notice.
    Totally agree- I would have no issue with telling strange children to stop bothering me. I don't remember the last time it happened, though. I have had to tell kids to stop terrorizing my kids at the park or whatever. Sometimes it probably is the parents' fault, but I'm not comfortable assuming that based on a single interaction. And sometimes, I know because I know families like this, the parents are responsible and do everything they're supposed to do, but the kids act wretchedly anyway. Some people are just jerks, and I don't think they always magically become jerks when they grow up. Sometimes they were always a jerk.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #87
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    ...But the SPs, as discussed in Alicia's freedom topic, want to fight EVERYTHING. The Introverts will fight much more quietly, but still fight and rebel. And the extroverts are most likely the ones bothering whatever in the store, because they are the hardest to get to cooperate.
    Definitely.

    The SP-style children are not necessarily trying to be "bad" or "disobedient" (although any child can choose to rebel, surely).

    They generally just learn and grow by challenging boundaries on their freedom. They also excel at maximizing freedom by exploiting loopholes -- although to them it seems to be more of finding a way to flex the rules to accommodate their desires, it's like a game and they feel good when they find those weak spots in the rules.

    My getting pissed and taking it personally each time my SP kid pulled that with me was the wrong approach. Once I figured out what his motivations were, I could tailor my style with him and life got MUCH better... and he acted out far less, ironically. I was actually contributing to the problem, rather than resolving it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever
    Why do parents throw a fit when you ask the child who's pestering you where thier parents (occasionally out of sight) are? I wouldn't be half as annoyed if I wasn't considered rude by people for this
    As another note, how you say something also impacts how it comes across.

    I have no idea how you typically express these feelings in the situation you describe, although if you sound as pissy then as you have here when you've vented (note that it doesn't bother me personally, I'm simply describing the tone of your posts), I'm sure that doesn't help matters.

    Delivery impacts perception.
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  8. #88
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Some people are just jerks, and I don't think they always magically become jerks when they grow up. Sometimes they were always a jerk.
    Perhaps, but let's get real here. There's a strong correlation between poor parenting and kids' misbehaving. I don't think people can wash their hands of their kids' behavior entirely. I agree that judging from a single instance is not a sensible approach. But you can try to raise a child with the right values but do so poorly and have a right monster. Doesn't mean you were a monster yourself, just not great at parenting, in terms of effectiveness.

  9. #89
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Perhaps, but let's get real here. There's a strong correlation between poor parenting and kids' misbehaving. I don't think people can wash their hands of their kids' behavior entirely. I agree that judging from a single instance is not a sensible approach. But you can try to raise a child with the right values but do so poorly and have a right monster. Doesn't mean you were a monster yourself, just not great at parenting, in terms of effectiveness.
    No, I don't disagree that it can be poor parenting. I just don't think it always is, and I'm not comfortable reaching the conclusion that it is based on a single interaction. (Things like heart's experiences, where she knows the families over time, would be more likely to bring me to that conclusion than a kid acting up in a store.)

    And sometimes, even if it's poor parenting, it's not a matter of someone just being bad at it. Sometimes it's trying to fit a child into a one-size-fits-all approach. My two kids are as different as night and day. If I raised Thing 2 the exact same way I have been raising Thing 1 I think he would be a psychopath. He needs much stricter control. And if I had raised Thing 1 with the strict controls I have to use on Thing 2, her spirit would have been dulled and I don't think she would trust us as much as she does now.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #90
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    No, I don't disagree that it can be poor parenting. I just don't think it always is, and I'm not comfortable reaching the conclusion that it is based on a single interaction. (Things like heart's experiences, where she knows the families over time, would be more likely to bring me to that conclusion than a kid acting up in a store.)
    Exactly. My disagreements here are based on the intensity of some of the assertions being made from limited incidents in particular environments.

    (i.e., the judgment being formed is not based on a broad and diverse survey, a lot of other possibilities for behavior are being ignored).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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