What's with all the denying of reality, gaslighting etc?

[Mole]

If you start a thread on this, will you tag me?

The thread would be for practice until we develop the basic skill of listening.

The practice is repetitive until we take it for granted.

To do the practice takes commitment. So it is a good idea to think about it, ask questions, and find if this is something you want to do.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

The thread would be for practice until we develop the basic skill of listening.

The practice is repetitive until we take it for granted.

To do the practice takes commitment. So it is a good idea to think about it, ask questions, and find if this is something you want to do.

That makes sense, and sounds like a good idea. I will definitely start making a list of questions and the like! Do you want me to send them to you when I'm done, or is this more of an educate-yourself type thing?

 

[Abendrot]

Many of us come here with hopes of being heard but we become disappointed.

As a result of disappointment some us become frustrated, and as a result of our frustration some of us become angry. And as a result of our anger, we leave Typology Central in high dudgeon.

But the fact for most of us here is the no-one is going to listen to us. In fact no one here practises active listening.

The very best we can hope for on Typology Central is to feel the same as others. And feeling the same not being listened to.

So if we can get over our disappointment, and not be seduced into feeling the same as, what is left for us?

Spot on. It has always seemed to me that I put a lot more thought into other peoples' posts than they put into mine. But there is no sense in getting mad over it; you've just got to get what you can out of this site. It is especially amusing when you consider that being a good listener is considered to be a strength of introverts. If anything, what I have learned is that introverts in general are very self absorbed and love to talk about themselves.

 

[Mole]

That makes sense, and sounds like a good idea. I will definitely start making a list of questions and the like! Do you want me to send them to you when I'm done, or is this more of an educate-yourself type thing?

If we decide to go ahead with this project on Typology Central we need to talk about it first, to understand it, and to know what to expect and what is expected of us, and what benefit we might receive.

Talking about it first is preparing us and also alerting others who might want to join us.

 

[Mole]

Spot on. It has always seemed to me that I put a lot more thought into other peoples' posts than they put into mine. But there is no sense in getting mad over it; you've just got to get what you can out of this site. It is especially amusing when you consider that being a good listener is considered to be a strength of introverts. If anything, what I have learned is that introverts in general are very self absorbed and love to talk about themselves.

We all love to be listened to and empathy training teaches us how to listen as well.

And interestingly empathy training teaches us how to listen reciprocally, in other words we practise talking and listening turn and turn about. First one talks and the other listens, and then the other takes their turn to talk and we listen. This way empathic listening becomes fair and both parties benefit equally.

So empathy training is based on an equal partnership. And indeed it is an excellent training for most modern relationships.

So empathy training is unlike the parent child relationship which is inherently unequal, and is like a mature relationship among equals.

 

[Abendrot]

We all love to be listened to and empathy training teaches us how to listen as well.

And interestingly empathy training teaches us how to listen reciprocally, in other words we practise talking and listening turn and turn about. First one talks and the other listens, and then the other takes their turn to talk and we listen. This way empathic listening becomes fair and both parties benefit equally.

So empathy training is based on an equal partnership. And indeed it is an excellent training for most modern relationships.

So empathy training is unlike the parent child relationship which is inherently unequal, and is like a mature relationship among equals.

Indeed, I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much empathy, as it allows one to achieve a greater level of awareness by incorporating the perspectives of others. I am interested in this project as well. I think it may be better to start up a group instead of using this thread.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Reasoning and critical thinking are going downhill, and I'm not an expert on all the reasons why. People have learned tactics to veer off from reasoning. We see it modeled in the media all the time. All the many, many talking heads that gossip and use poor reasoning to discuss issues are influencing the populace. It's why I don't watch any news or talk shows.

There are strange things happening in the educational system where children are not being taught efficient problem solving skills. Someone was telling me about the new approach to teaching beginning math, and it is incredibly convoluted. For example, when children learn to add multiple-digit numbers, instead of just carrying the next digit into the next column, they are supposed to round all the numbers up or down, then calculate that, and then reimpose the odd-ball numbers at the end. When someone tried to explain it to me, I couldn't even understand it. How is a elementary child in their concrete-operational stage of reasoning going to make sense of it. That's just one example.

 

[Mole]

Indeed, I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much empathy, as it allows one to achieve a greater level of awareness by incorporating the perspectives of others. I am interested in this project as well. I think it may be better to start up a group instead of using this thread.

I think it is important for us to know what we are getting into.

For instance, it important to know we are talking about empathy training as opposed to sympathy.

Sympathy comes naturally and requires no training, and where sympathy means to feel the same as, empathy means knowing what your partner is feeling but without feeling it yourself. And empathy does not come naturally, and unlike sympathy, empathy requires training.

For instance, if your partner is in distress, it is uniquely helpful to know what they are feeling, without feeling it yourself, so you are in an emotional position to help them.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

I think it is important for us to know what we are getting into.

For instance, it important to know we are talking about empathy training as opposed to sympathy.

Sympathy comes naturally and requires no training, and where sympathy means to feel the same as, empathy means knowing what your partner is feeling but without feeling it yourself. And empathy does not come naturally, and unlike sympathy, empathy requires training.

For instance, if your partner is in distress, it is uniquely helpful to know what they are feeling, without feeling it yourself, so you are in an emotional position to help them.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to try this, next time.

 

[Mole]

That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to try this, next time.

In empathy training we first do a repetitive exercise, quite like scales on the piano. We do this to train our unconscious. So that at first we are not conscious of anything happening, but if we persist, there comes a moment when our unconscious training reaches our conscious mind and we get it. It is a satisfying moment after all our hard work.

 

[Litsnob]

This is not site where we listen to each other, almost no one here is trained in active listening, and no one has received empathy training, rather it is a narcissistic free for all, we compete to get our voices heard and no one listens.

This is a site where egos battle one another. Where we seek one to dominate the other. The best we can hope for is someone who shares the same ideas we do, and the same feelings. The best we can hope for is a popular conformity.

You may be right, and perhaps that is why I don't spend much time here. However, I have no expectations. I just show up when I'm procrastinating. For me it's a slight improvement on Facebook where nobody actually wants to talk about anything.

 

[Mole]

You may be right, and perhaps that is why I don't spend much time here. However, I have no expectations. I just show up when I'm procrastinating. For me it's a slight improvement on Facebook where nobody actually wants to talk about anything.

What would you like to talk about?

 

[Litsnob]

What would you like to talk about?

LOL-well it's rare anyone asks me that! We are doing well in the other threads. I throw out as much bait as I can on Facebook, usually it is atheist, anti-theist, political or a bit of psychology, often articles I know nobody will read but I am hoping they will. I am always hoping somebody will. I learn by discussing. I figure out my own ideas by discussing. I test my hypotheses. I try out ideas out loud to see if they work for me or others. I am always hoping someone will say something that makes me think and then I can respond and you know, it's called conversation. I am told that I must talk about dogs and grandchildren and what I had for breakfast.

 

[Mole]

LOL-well it's rare anyone asks me that! We are doing well in the other threads. I throw out as much bait as I can on Facebook, usually it is atheist, anti-theist, political or a bit of psychology, often articles I know nobody will read but I am hoping they will. I am always hoping somebody will. I learn by discussing. I figure out my own ideas by discussing. I test my hypotheses. I try out ideas out loud to see if they work for me or others. I am always hoping someone will say something that makes me think and then I can respond and you know, it's called conversation. I am told that I must talk about dogs and grandchildren and what I had for breakfast.

Perhaps we can leave dogs, grandchildren, and what you had for breakfast, and talk about articles you know nobody will read.

And you are fortunate to learn by discussing, you test your hypotheses. And you are always hoping someone will say something that makes you think, then you can respond, and hey, it's a conversation.

Yes, and a conversation is like a conversion, we convert each other.

And interestingly, this electronic medium is made for conversation.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Gaslighting Defined

I've found that a lot of people don't even know what this term means, and yet it pervades our society on so many levels.

10 Things I've Learned About Gaslighting
I like no. 8 the best - just put them on ignore

1. Gaslighting Doesn’t Have to Be Deliberate. Gaslighting does not require deliberate plotting. Gaslighting only requires a belief that it is acceptable to overwrite another person’s reality.

2. Manipulation and Gaslighting Are Distinct Behaviors. Gaslighting uses threats as well, but has the goal of actually changing who someone is, not just their behavior.

3. Gaslighting Doesn’t Always Involve Anger or Intimidation. In another type of gaslighting, the gaslighter is always transformed into the victim. Whenever you bring up a problem, you find yourself apologizing by the end of the conversation.

4. It’s Normal Not to Be Able to Remember What Happened. It’s normal to lose your memory when you’re being gaslighted.

5. There Are Distinct Stages (And These Stages Can Progress After the Relationship Is Over)
In stage one, you know that they’re being ridiculous, but you argue anyways.
In stage two, you consider your gaslighter’s point of view first and try desperately to get them to see your point of view as well.
In stage three, when you’re hurt, you first ask, “What’s wrong with me?”

6. There Are Distinct Traits That Make You More Susceptible to Gaslighting, But They Can Also Be Super Powers

7. You Know What Your Truth Is – You Always Have, and You Always Will

8. The End Game Is Not Confrontation, It’s Non-Engagement

9. You Must Confront the Threat

10. Gaslighting May Be Amplified in Families, Poly Relationships, and Other Groups

Gaslighting Techniques
Notice the reference to trivializing the other person as an a gaslightling technique.

Withholding" is one gaslighting technique where the abuser feigns a lack of understanding, refuses to listen and declines sharing his emotions.

Another gaslighting technique is "countering," where an abuser will vehemently call into question a victim's memory in spite of the victim having remembered things correctly.

"Blocking" and "diverting" are gaslighting techniques whereby the abuser again changes the conversation from the subject matter to questioning the victim's thoughts and controlling the conversation.

"Trivializing" is another way of gaslighting. It involves making the victim believe his or her thoughts or needs aren't important.

Abusive "forgetting" and "denial" can also be forms of gaslighting. In this technique, the abuser pretends to forget things that have really occurred; the abuser may also deny things like promises that have been made that are important to the victim.

 

[Galaxy Gazer]

Maybe it's not malicious? Maybe these people just don't have much in common with you? This is similar to how I felt in high school; anything remotely thoughtful or "deep" that I said was misunderstood by pretty much everyone.

 

[Shaedow]

If we decide to go ahead with this project on Typology Central we need to talk about it first, to understand it, and to know what to expect and what is expected of us, and what benefit we might receive.

Talking about it first is preparing us and also alerting others who might want to join us.

This is something I would like to participate in and would appreciate the opportunity.

 

[Mole]

This is something I would like to participate in and would appreciate the opportunity.

OK, it involves practice, like practising scales on the piano. So at first we are not practising music or empathy, rather are making something second nature, so we can do it without thinking. And so then we can make music or empathise.

So we keep practising at first it seems without any result, but as we slip into it, suddenly we get it, we understand it. Then we can take it forward under our own steam.

So perhaps the first step is to know the reason we want to empathise. If we have a good reason, we are likely to continue the practice, and go on to use empathy in our daily lives.

And although it is very important and very helpful, we are not interested in therapeutic empathy, rather we are interested in reciprocal empathy.

Reciprocal empathy is self sustaining.

 

[Shaedow]

OK, it involves practice, like practising scales on the piano. So at first we are not practising music or empathy, rather are making something second nature, so we can do it without thinking. And so then we can make music or empathise. So we keep practising at first it seems without any result, but as we slip into it, suddenly we get it, we understand it. Then we can take it forward under our own steam. So perhaps the first step is to know the reason we want to empathise. If we have a good reason, we are likely to continue the practice, and go on to use empathy in our daily lives. And although it is very important and very helpful, we are not interested in therapeutic empathy, rather we are interested in reciprocal empathy. Reciprocal empathy is self sustaining.

Yes I understand the aspect of practice, to assimilate a learned behaviour to something more automatic and dynamic to the situation.


The reason for me comes down to be better at communication. At times my partner says I'm not listening. I can also feel the same way. The reciprocal nature is what I would like to be able to direct and acheive.

 

[Mole]

Empathy Practice

Yes I understand the aspect of practice, to assimilate a learned behaviour to something more automatic and dynamic to the situation.

The reason for me comes down to be better at communication. At times my partner says I'm not listening. I can also feel the same way. The reciprocal nature is what I would like to be able to direct and acheive.

To continue with empathy training we need to dedicate a thread that is only for practice and not for discussion.

One person says, I ............, and the partner responds with, you .......... The first person repeats this six times and the partner responds with you .... six times.

Then the partners swap roles and the second person says I something, something, something .... and the first partner responds with exactly the same words except substituting you for I, again for six times.

We do this six times turn and turn about.

And we do this for six days every second day.

This is mechanical, like learning the scales on the piano, but every day we do it we are learning how to use our empathic muscles.

And there comes a point where we get it, where we can take it for granted and start to extend our empathic range.
[MENTION=26032]Shaedow[/MENTION]