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N's: beating around the bush

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I came across this comment in the S vs N thread and it immediately triggered thoughts in my head and explanations as to why (apart from the specific question actually BEING the point) it might appear this way...

I like this board, but sometimes Ns can be very annoying about getting to the point too. They ask really vague questions when they want to know about solutions to very specific problems. For example, an opening post might ask about why ESFPs are flighty, but a few posts later the real question would turn out to be "How do I get this ESFP to pay attention to me?". (An exaggeration, but common phenomenon.)

I know this has to do with the way N's think - or at least, I do - being to solve problems and explore solutions and methods etc by linking something specific to as many other things as possible, in order to gain a bigger general picture.

But I'm having a bad vocabulary day today and seem unable to articulate what it is I'm thinking properly. Anyone care to input?
 

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Oh, a word just came to me: leverage. It's all about leverage for N's, isn't it? Or is that just me? You know, the reason we're more interested in 'why ESFP's are flighty' than asking 'how do I get this ESFP to notice me' is because the general idea is that when you understand the whys and hows of something, it enables you to know exactly where to apply leverage in order to achieve the desired effect.

No? :unsure:
 

miss fortune

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agreeing with the second post there :)

I prefer to ask a question that appears more vague, I suppose, because I want a more universally applicable answer to the question as opposed to an explanation of a specific phenomonon. It's just a manner of being more efficient ;)
 

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yeah that's it - one eye on the future possibilities all the time isn't it? like never just thinking 'how can I solve this specific problem right now' but more like 'how is this specific problem linked to other things that happen more generally, and how can get the maximum learning experience from it so as to be armed against future events?'
 

Rachelinpa

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I don't think I tergiversate intentionally. Often, I ask broad questions because I'm not sure entirely what it is I want to know yet. Sometimes I even ask stacked questions because in order to know what it is I want to know, I have to hear myself ask it or it doesn't count yet. As NF, I find the point is the process of understanding and the rapport. I like the discussion more than the outcome.
 

Rachelinpa

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yeah that's it - one eye on the future possibilities all the time isn't it?

Definitely! You never know what may come of it. It's better to keep the questions broad because you never know what people will say... why limit them?
 

Rachelinpa

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Well, yes and no. Because I do get what I want in the immediate... the interesting conversation! The new viewpoints!
 

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Well, yes and no. Because I do get what I want in the immediate... the interesting conversation! The new viewpoints!

Ha, yeah... whether or not the ESFP notices you becomes of secondary importance... "what's happening now" just never quite seems as interesting a topic for N's as "what could happen in the future" :laugh:

perhaps sometimes we're too busy future-proofing ourselves to notice the present :rolleyes:
 

Jack Flak

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Perhaps it's because if you ask a very specific question online the thread tumbles to the bottom with zero replies. That's been my experience.
 

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Perhaps it's because if you ask a very specific question online the thread tumbles to the bottom with zero replies. That's been my experience.

Okay, pragmatic but astute :yes:

Do you not do it in RL then? Assuming you actually have any friends to beat around the bush with that is? :alttongue:
 

milti girl

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Exactly. To Ns it's more important to understand the general principles behind what make ESFPs tick. Then they'll attempt to apply what they have learnt to the ESFP in their personal life. Ns do not want to personalise their questions right away. They need to know whether what they are experiencing is generally true or not - and if not, then how they should redefine the way they look at ESFPs.
 

Jack Flak

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Okay, pragmatic but astute :yes:

Do you not do it in RL then? Assuming you actually have any friends to beat around the bush with that is? :alttongue:
Yes I have friends. Just forty minutes ago one, and I, were laughing about shit at the gym. I honestly got most of my intellectual discussions out of the way in high school.
 

Rachelinpa

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Exactly. To Ns it's more important to understand the general principles behind what make ESFPs tick. Then they'll attempt to apply what they have learnt to the ESFP in their personal life. Ns do not want to personalise their questions right away. They need to know whether what they are experiencing is generally true or not - and if not, then how they should redefine the way they look at ESFPs.

Very well said.
 

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Yes I have friends. Just forty minutes ago one, and I, were laughing about shit at the gym. I honestly got most of my intellectual discussions out of the way in high school.

Thank Krishna for that! I thought I was the only one who'd rather hack off his arm than talk about existentialism etc... talk about done to death!! :coffee:
 

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They need to know whether what they are experiencing is generally true or not - and if not, then how they should redefine the way they look at ESFPs.

Yes, this is really it, the part that perhaps some find difficult, especially about NP's (maybe). We ARE very willing to change our minds if given new information that conflicts currently held theory. And all opinion isn't opinion as such, more a work in progress. So I wouldn't want to go acting on my current idea of this person or ESFP's or advice given before I figure out if I'm starting my enquiries from the right point. Does that make sense?
 

Rachelinpa

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See, that makes me feel better about us. It's not that we don't want accuracy. We do! It's just a different way of getting the information.
 

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See, that makes me feel better about us. It's not that we don't want accuracy. We do! It's just a different way of getting the information.

yeah. and it's different aspects of a situation that we're more interested in being accurate about... sorta :huh:

incidentally, do you have a particular attachment to sodium? (your avatar)
 

Totenkindly

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Exactly. To Ns it's more important to understand the general principles behind what make ESFPs tick. Then they'll attempt to apply what they have learnt to the ESFP in their personal life. Ns do not want to personalise their questions right away. They need to know whether what they are experiencing is generally true or not - and if not, then how they should redefine the way they look at ESFPs.

yes.

Life is broadened out to "concepts/principles," then reapplied the situation. That seems far more efficient than having a particular fix for each little situation that is not applicable elsewhere... plus it's the "understanding the big picture" thing.

If a particular fix doesn't fit into the big picture, then it's not valid anyway. It's a way to check a particular piece of advice. Choices are driven from top-down (concept -> application) and not just application -> application.

yeah. and it's different aspects of a situation that we're more interested in being accurate about... sorta :huh:

N's tend to be less concerned over where the "focal points" of the picture are and more interested in whether they are correctly "related" to each other.

An S will want specific points nailed in place at specific locations; the N wants the "pattern" or relationship between the points to be determined, and then the pattern can be overlaid over any situation to see if the specific points in that situation are properly related.

See, that makes me feel better about us. It's not that we don't want accuracy.

Yup, accuracy in the relationality of the points. (If the big picture doesn't gel, something is very wrong and needs corrected.)
 
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