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Thread: Bullying

  1. #61
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    It goes without saying that the subject at the top of the pecking order indulges in his power by taking or doing whatever he wants, even at the expense of the others below him. Each time that he does this and the lower subject does not like it, it has the potential be become a challenge for the higher position.

    We don't think about these things in our daily lives because, for the most part, in the Western World we live rather peacefully, orderly, and cooperatively with each other. So much so that it's very easy to forget. And offensive to suggest.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Kyrielle's post reminds me that when children are abused in their homes they usually take one of two paths. They can become the bully or they can carry their victim role into society.

    The gift that keeps on giving.

    I suppose most of you know where the words "pecking order" comes from. When chickens are in a flock, if they sense a weakness or an injury in another bird, they will continuously peck at that bird until it is dead.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #63
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    It is a crude awakening to find out that people don't like you and want to harm you in some ways.

    I don't think that this is "normal" behavior, there is something wrong in those kids.[...] I am convinced that this problem starts from some situation in the bully's past and it's a fairly good guess it has to do with their parents.
    Yes it's funny isn't it how the psychological manipulation makes the target believe that they're being bullied because there's something wrong with them, rather than the more obvious (to the adult observer) issue which is that there's something wrong with the BULLY. Normal, healthy people don't need to bully!!

    In the case of my daughter she's a bright, pretty, happy and confident kid, she makes friends easily and people like her just for herself. I guess a kid with an inferiority complex feels threatened by that and figures they'll have fun taking away from her all the rewards she's entitled to from being a good person, and making her feel like the good things about her are flaws that are 'why' she gets bullied.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    A kid bullied me in first grade, but after some encouragement from my mom, I stood up to her and was rarely bullied after that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    For the individual, the best thing they can do is stand up for themselves. It is the most effective and permanent solution. This involves typically getting physical, since it needs to be very direct to be effective. It may create distance between you and others, but it is generally the better solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Talking back will get you mocked and laughed at, turning away without saying anything will get you taunted at and laughed at. I guess the best you can do is to be good at something and concentrate on that and then it won't really matter.
    These comments look odd together... I wonder why it is that when some people fight back it works, whilst others find it just makes matters worse. I think what makes it worse for my daughter is that when she stood up for herself back at primary school (uh, I think that's equivalent to elementary in the USA) they did just laugh and laugh at her and that memory haunts her and makes her feel utterly powerless.

    I remember when my bully lay in wait for me outside my math class. I came out to a huge gang of kids yelling and heckling me and this kid started hitting me. I fought back, damn right I did, and I totally kicked this kid's ass. But this didn't end the bullying for me - it only intensified it. It just gave them more to bully me about - "psycho!" The comment itself didn't bother me, but the fact that everywhere I went people whispered and giggled behind my back and I ended up isolated, that got to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I briefly started to become one during a rather intensive bully period in my life. This isn't unusual, actually - it is a typical coping mechanism.
    Again, bully or be bullied as I suspected in the OP. That's what i've also done in the past (since leaving school) when I've got a whiff of potential bullying in the air in the workplace I've been all like no, not again, never again, and I've overcompensated.

    Anja, I relate to what you're saying and in the past I've always been quick to 'correct' it when I've seen my kids stooping or y'know, putting on that invisible KICK ME sign, taught them to stand up straight with their head up high. I guess though sometimes you can only tell somebody something and hope they take it on board... often with kids because they haven't the wisdom to understand what you're saying though, that advice is useless until much later in life.

    It's just so easy to say "rise above it" but a lot harder to do when you spend your whole day walking around with a gang of hecklers behind you who see to it that nobody else will be your friend for fear of getting the same treatment themselves. And it's pretty cold comfort for the parent whose heart is ripped to shreds having to watch their kid go through this...

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've never witnessed someone really succeeding in standing up to a bully actually It might seem to work on the surface, but the gossip directed towards that person and the social exclusion that they can suffer as a result can be worse than any punch that can be thrown thier way.
    Again, I have to agree. I think the difference is that you're talking about girl bullying whereas PT (and the other ISTP's) are mainly dealing with boy bullying, and the two are like chalk and cheese. Girl bullying more often doesn't include any actual physical violence, it's all a psychological smear campaign and emotional abuse. And getting physical about it only escalates the problem because there's more to mock you about, since girls aren't "supposed" to do that.

    Kyrielle it's interesting that you say it made you turn your back on the world as a cruel place full of cruel people, basically. In my case I never blamed the world, I was well aware that it was 'just them' and they were the ones with the problem. I knew that the other people in school, most of whom didn't bully me, were just scared of being bullied too and that outside of school where those bullies weren't, the world was generally benevolent. Somehow I never lost my innate optimism... but it did become heavily tinged with cynical pragmatism...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  5. #65
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    seriously YLJ, the aim isn't for her to wind up in a young offenders' prison

    she is simply not capable of any of those things and I'm damn pleased she isn't.

    I can completely understand that you might have felt justified in what you did but that really is not a viable solution in this case.

    However, fighting dirty in the sense of politically dirty, yes I can see that this might be a survival option... it's something I've used since leaving school to fend off the same thing from happening again. but really K isn't capable of that kind of guile, and I don't think that corrupting the sweet personality she has by teaching her violence and manipulation could be considered a successful outcome.

    No good comes of bandying words in a conflict IF a person tells a bully something that he dislikes or is offended by, then he will beat the victim and the situation's nothing better for it. Just aim for throat, crotch or eyes and hope to inflict as much damage as possible.

    But ofcourse, if she's a really sweet little kid, maybe she should consider changing school. Or bring it up on a PTA meeting and get the other kid(s) kicked out. This option is probably a lot better for girls, since they somehow don't have the same fear of being labeled cowards, snitches etc.

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  6. #66
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    These comments look odd together... I wonder why it is that when some people fight back it works, whilst others find it just makes matters worse. I think what makes it worse for my daughter is that when she stood up for herself back at primary school (uh, I think that's equivalent to elementary in the USA) they did just laugh and laugh at her and that memory haunts her and makes her feel utterly powerless.

    I remember when my bully lay in wait for me outside my math class. I came out to a huge gang of kids yelling and heckling me and this kid started hitting me. I fought back, damn right I did, and I totally kicked this kid's ass. But this didn't end the bullying for me - it only intensified it. It just gave them more to bully me about - "psycho!" The comment itself didn't bother me, but the fact that everywhere I went people whispered and giggled behind my back and I ended up isolated, that got to me.
    I'm wondering how much the bully/victim power dynamic is influenced by the attitudes of authority figures. The kids I was around knew better than to be too overt or over the top with their behavior because they would get in trouble and I also knew that if somebody really hurt me or said something especially cruel to me, my mom would do something like make a scene in the office or call the kid's parents, etc. The schools might pretend they didn't know what was going on, but if a parent complained, they'd feel compelled to address the situation.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Digital Demi-Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've never witnessed someone really succeeding in standing up to a bully actually It might seem to work on the surface, but the gossip directed towards that person and the social exclusion that they can suffer as a result can be worse than any punch that can be thrown thier way.
    Didn't work that way for myself, I never took anything anyone said about me seriously, infact they were the absolute last thing on my mind after dealing with some of the pricks I've met, it's easy to overcome gossip if you're not sensitive to it, in my last two years of high school I was well known and I didn't even now why really, I did find out people spoke about me alot but I didn't really know what they were saying, mainly cause besides a few select people I kept to myself anyways. Social exclusion doesn't work on those who aren't all that social to begin with.

    Also during Junior and Senior year I was quite popular, I think I might have been the most popular kid who didn't say anything in school and that's saying something as my High School was the largest in the county.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    Social exclusion doesn't work on those who aren't all that social to begin with.
    Lucky you!!
    For me and my equally extraverted daughter, it's absolutely decimating.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #69
    Senior Member Digital Demi-Fiend's Avatar
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    Actually now that I think about it the worst years I had in school were middle school and early High School. The later years were actually pretty sweet. I was friends with football players and everything I met some pretty awesome people that I still keep in touch with in fact. Why am I always ragging on school so much?

  10. #70
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    Maybe it's that old principle, how it takes 100 compliments to undo a single insult. Maybe the bad times were so bad that they shroud the good ones?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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