Bullying

[Population: 1]

If we remain blind to the social dimension of bullying, it will continue. If we don't recognise we live in a society of extreme individualism, riven by narcissism, we blind ourselves to the social reality of bullying around us.

Bullies are spineless, weak minded people who can't abide differences in people. They are not conformity police or the arbitrators of justice. They are seriously fucked up people who hate themselves and instead of dealing with that they vent their self loathing on others. Period. Let's not paint them as the shepherds of a healthy society.

 

[Mole]

Bullies are spineless, weak minded people who can't abide differences in people. They are not conformity police or the arbitrators of justice. They are seriously fucked up people who hate themselves and instead of dealing with that they vent their self loathing on others. Period. Let's not paint them as the shepherds of a healthy society.

C'mon, bullies are just normal people with mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and they carry out the injunctions of society just as we do. And the interesting question is what social function do they perform. And it is obvious that among adolescents belonging to the peer group is a prime objective. And so conformity to the peer group is a prime objective. And this is just what bullies do: they attack those who don't conform and so shore up conformity.

If you continue to think just in individual terms, you will remain blind to the social dimension. Do look at Sociological Imagination - YouTube .

 

[Lark]

C'mon, bullies are just normal people with mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and they carry out the injunctions of society just as we do. And the interesting question is what social function do they perform. And it is obvious that among adolescents belonging to the peer group is a prime objective. And so conformity to the peer group is a prime objective. And this is just what bullies do: they attack those who don't conform and so shore up conformity.

If you continue to think just in individual terms, you will remain blind to the social dimension. Do look at Sociological Imagination - YouTube .

And blanket generalisations dont serve people very well in real life.

 

[Mole]

And blanket generalisations dont serve people very well in real life.

Those who can think abstractly know it is the relationship between the general and the specific that matters.

So I agree with you that generalisations unmoored from the specific are fatuous and misleading. But thinking abstractly with both the general and the specific is powerful and beautiful.

 

[Lark]

Those who can think abstractly know it is the relationship between the general and the specific that matters.

So I agree with you that generalisations unmoored from the specific are fatuous and misleading. But thinking abstractly with both the general and the specific is powerful and beautiful.

I got tired some time back of your pass off something your read someplace as your actual opinion in an effort to appear informed and erudite.

Its great for you that you were able to move on from the tabloids to sociology textbooks.

 

[Population: 1]

C'mon, bullies are just normal people with mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and they carry out the injunctions of society just as we do. And the interesting question is what social function do they perform. And it is obvious that among adolescents belonging to the peer group is a prime objective. And so conformity to the peer group is a prime objective. And this is just what bullies do: they attack those who don't conform and so shore up conformity.

If you continue to think just in individual terms, you will remain blind to the social dimension. Do look at Sociological Imagination - YouTube .

Then let me be blind. The other side of the coin is what to be a drooling zombie, a drone? Just because Bif can't think outside the box and feels all confused and needs to smash what he doesn't understand isn't my concern. Have you seen the sadistic lengths some kids take things to? If we argue in defense of that behavior because it culls the square pegs then don't be surprised when Hitlers and Stalins and Maos grow up to exterminate entire sections of societies because those people didn't fit their idea of 'normal'.

 

[Lark]

Then let me be blind. The other side of the coin is what to be a drooling zombie, a drone? Just because Bif can't think outside the box and feels all confused and needs to smash what he doesn't understand isn't my concern. Have you seen the sadistic lengths some kids take things to? If we argue in defense of that behavior because it culls the square pegs then don't be surprised when Hitlers and Stalins and Maos grow up to exterminate entire sections of societies because those people didn't fit their idea of 'normal'.

Yeah, there's good points there.

Although most of the serious instances of bullying that I was subject to or witnessed growing up were nothing to do with conformity, it often wasnt the outsider or the oddball or intellectual types who got singled out at all, in some instances the bullies were just really violent, from violent backgrounds or families and sadistically enjoyed inflicting pain on others.

On at least one occasion I think there was something even darker motivating one guy and I've seen that sort of sinister behaviour protrayed well on screen in movies, most recently the movie when a monster calls, although in this thread, in that movie, and elsewhere I'm always a little concerned about the idea that all it takes is a valiant underdog to employ some sort of violent response and it'll all cease.

In my experience that's seldom the case, it can lead to escalations in the situation which I think are more than well documented, in the UK at the minute there's reviews of how the authorities deal with stalking and menacing behaviour in the community which could be labelled as "bullying" (when I was a kid I used to reflect upon that difference in how behaviour was labelled depending on the context and how it lead to minimising of its significance at times) because it frequently has escalated with fatal consequences.

 

[Population: 1]

Yeah, there's good points there.

Although most of the serious instances of bullying that I was subject to or witnessed growing up were nothing to do with conformity, it often wasnt the outsider or the oddball or intellectual types who got singled out at all, in some instances the bullies were just really violent, from violent backgrounds or families and sadistically enjoyed inflicting pain on others.

On at least one occasion I think there was something even darker motivating one guy and I've seen that sort of sinister behaviour protrayed well on screen in movies, most recently the movie when a monster calls, although in this thread, in that movie, and elsewhere I'm always a little concerned about the idea that all it takes is a valiant underdog to employ some sort of violent response and it'll all cease.

In my experience that's seldom the case, it can lead to escalations in the situation which I think are more than well documented, in the UK at the minute there's reviews of how the authorities deal with stalking and menacing behaviour in the community which could be labelled as "bullying" (when I was a kid I used to reflect upon that difference in how behaviour was labelled depending on the context and how it lead to minimising of its significance at times) because it frequently has escalated with fatal consequences.

I agree. From what I noticed a lot of them came from abusive homes where they were no doubt psychologically abused as well and their self esteem's were reduced to nothing. Unable to vent at their tormentors they themselves become tormentors and the cycle continues. I just noticed that at times refusing to back down from their crap makes them seek new targets. Not always. Sometimes you just end up getting your ass beaten. lol

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Bullies are spineless, weak minded people who can't abide differences in people. They are not conformity police or the arbitrators of justice. They are seriously fucked up people who hate themselves and instead of dealing with that they vent their self loathing on others. Period. Let's not paint them as the shepherds of a healthy society.

I agree. From what I noticed a lot of them came from abusive homes where they were no doubt psychologically abused as well and their self esteem's were reduced to nothing. Unable to vent at their tormentors they themselves become tormentors and the cycle continues. I just noticed that at times refusing to back down from their crap makes them seek new targets. Not always. Sometimes you just end up getting your ass beaten. lol

I agree with this, but unfortunately it is very common. The way to create a bully is to have someone dominant in the family like a father beat up on folks, but then for the object of that abuse have an outlet to express their own abuse on a younger sibling, other kids at school, or something else vulnerable. They learn to gain a immediate sense of personal power by acting like the person who takes away their power, leaving them vulnerable.

it's a quick fix that can become a power addiction in people because it doesn't last long. They need constant assurance of their power and so have to keep bullying over and over again. You are right that at their core they are a frightened child terrified in the face of a bullying authority figure. It is a tragic cycle, and I don't know how many realize how exposed their vulnerability is through their veil of pretend dominance. The truth is the authority figure screaming at their children is also a frightened child peeing their pants in the dark corner in memory of their own violent imprinting.

 

[StrawberryBoots]

This video is interesting. For a unique approach to the problem, developmental psychologist Gordon Neufeld discusses the bully syndrome in order to understand how bullies are made:

 

[Mole]

I agree with this, but unfortunately it is very common. The way to create a bully is to have someone dominant in the family like a father beat up on folks, but then for the object of that abuse have an outlet to express their own abuse on a younger sibling, other kids at school, or something else vulnerable. They learn to gain a immediate sense of personal power by acting like the person who takes away their power, leaving them vulnerable.

it's a quick fix that can become a power addiction in people because it doesn't last long. They need constant assurance of their power and so have to keep bullying over and over again. You are right that at their core they are a frightened child terrified in the face of a bullying authority figure. It is a tragic cycle, and I don't know how many realize how exposed their vulnerability is through their veil of pretend dominance. The truth is the authority figure screaming at their children is also a frightened child peeing their pants in the dark corner in memory of their own violent imprinting.

This is based on the philosophy of individualism which is coming to an end.

The invention of the printing press in 1440 made possible the literate individual, but into the garden of Eden snaked the electric telegraph in 1840, and tasting the phone and becoming phoney, the literate individual was cast out of Eden into an electronic tribe in the global village.

But still, habits of thought are slow to change, largely because they are invisible, and so we drive forward looking in the rear vision mirror of individualism, while the electronic tribe is rushing towards us through the windshield.

 

[Lark]

This is based on the philosophy of individualism which is coming to an end.

Not as long as I live and breath.

 

[VILLANELLE]

I had someone ask me, "What the hell are you smiling about?" as I left high school for the last time.

I had a classmate tell me I was ugly while sitting right in front of me. What the fuck.

I feel no better since I left it, and that was years ago. I've always had poor self-esteem and never really knew how to deal with my bullies, I guess. I think I was gossipped about; I kept to myself, which I have regrets about, but oh well. Life is essentially high school because people can be awful no matter what age. I dressed poorly and was this silent, art-wannabe, angsty-wannabe person. It was a weird time that I thankfully don't remember. Most of it, anyways.

 

[Population: 1]

I had someone ask me, "What the hell are you smiling about?" as I left high school for the last time.

I had a classmate tell me I was ugly while sitting right in front of me. What the fuck.

I feel no better since I left it, and that was years ago. I've always had poor self-esteem and never really knew how to deal with my bullies, I guess. I think I was gossipped about; I kept to myself, which I have regrets about, but oh well. Life is essentially high school because people can be awful no matter what age. I dressed poorly and was this silent, art-wannabe, angsty-wannabe person. It was a weird time that I thankfully don't remember. Most of it, anyways.

The thing I came to realize is the 'popular' crowd walked a thin line between popularity and so called loserdom, a line that brought them misery and stress because the rules made it so easy for them to fall out of favor. When you are outside looking in and invisible to them you could see they'd be sickening sweet to one another and then as soon as one of them turned to walk away, the other would curse the ground they walked upon. Conformity, popularity is just as empty a thing as being an outcast. Except as an outcast you at least know where you stand. Be you. Believe in you. Individuality isn't as some here suggest a disease, it is a path to discovering yourself. It's not always easy, it's damn lonely at times. However, at the end of the day you will hopefully know who you are, and as equally important, who you aren't.

 

[Typh0n]

The thing I came to realize is the 'popular' crowd walked a thin line between popularity and so called loserdom, a line that brought them misery and stress because the rules made it so easy for them to fall out of favor. When you are outside looking in and invisible to them you could see they'd be sickening sweet to one another and then as soon as one of them turned to walk away, the other would curse the ground they walked upon. Conformity, popularity is just as empty a thing as being an outcast. Except as an outcast you at least know where you stand. Be you. Believe in you. Individuality isn't as some here suggest a disease, it is a path to discovering yourself. It's not always easy, it's damn lonely at times. However, at the end of the day you will hopefully know who you are, and as equally important, who you aren't.

I agree, conformity is miserable, better to be yourself regardless of what the crowd thinks.

 

[Sacrophagus]

When I was a kid, I used to be picked on for my advanced knowledge and unusual astuteness. Bullies would call me a know-it-all, but I didn't care, in fact, I replied "So what?" with a smile on my face. A reaction I learned from my beloved and reckless sister.

Growing up during my childhood, I was always the one standing up for the bullied. It ached me to see no one move a finger, and I immediately barged in to cut the persecution off. I won't deny that I was fascinated and inspired by the moral compass and vaillant demeanor of my then Anime heroes. I even challenged a bully twice as big in size into a fight. I didn't know I could fight that well while being consumed with rage and emotions. I won that fight, and I'm still, to this day, friend with that person.

Bullies are weak minded filled with issues, angst and envy. The only way they can express their frustration with themselves is through verbal or physical violence.
Just pet a bully next time when he tries to harass you. Don't forget to give him some tissues.

 

[Hiraeth]

A reason why I wouldn't mind erasing parts of my memory away is because of my dreadful school experience. I was bullied multiple times from being called names, blackmailed, sexually harrassed, publicly humiliated, and almost getting my ass beatened. My mother had to step in numerous times in the past because I was unable to fend for myself unfortunately. I was naturally really shy, meek, and passive, a.k.a. the perfect target for bullies. Most of this happened when I was in middle school and the school I went to was pretty ghetto with fights being the norm on a weekly basis.

I then went to a high school in a different city to start anew and it was like a complete 180 in terms of school quality. It was located in an upper middle class, affluent neighborhood and I remember thinking how safe I felt for once, not feeling vulnerable to where someone could hurt me in any way, shape, or form. Also how odd it was how the students were actually paying attention in class and quietly respecting the teacher instead of throwing crap across the classroom and shouting all the time. It was so foreign to me, but in a good way. I still was bullied a bit by some jerk, but for the most part it was just cattiness among snobby assholes, which honestly I'd rather deal with than the detestable shit I did in middle school.

It was hard for years to feel somewhat secure with myself due in part to my past experiences with being bullied, but once I started to focus less on the past hurt and looking forward to what the future held I started feeling better in general. It took a while, but time eventually healed those wounds a great deal. I think bullying comes from a mix of both cultural and home related aspects; how and in what conditions someone was raised in. Some people never grow out of being a complete, heinous thorn in the side of other people, but I think it does get at least a little better as an adult when dealing with such people than when one is young and is stuck around the same classmates they see everyday.

I would have to say that college was my favorite school experience by far though. Pretty much just go to class and leave. Freedom!

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Sometimes I wonder if the lack of non-verbal cues in the online environment leads people to need to presume to know the inner workings of other people more absolutely. Over the years, I've noticed a lot of conflicts result from one person assuming they know another person's personality, psychological issues, motivations, and physical ailments better that the person knows their own self. While I can understand that outside observation can sometimes shed light and bring us insight, I think that is more true when people are given insight for others who know them well in a variety of contexts. I think overt criticisms tend to be invalid and based on social games and maneuvering. Sometimes they are accidentally correct, but i tend to dismiss them based on the faulty foundation upon which they are built. Based on the principles of humanistic psychology, each person is the master of their own life.

Very often people offer help that comes packaged with their assumptions about the other person, and their need to control the inner perceptions of other people. I'm here to help you see what your personality actually is. I'm here to help you see what your motivations actually are in this debate. You need me to diagnose the type and level of severity of your psychological and physical problems. And all of this with never having seen the person in actual life.

It brings to my mind that talk by psychologist Gordon Neufeld who describes how bullies are made. He discusses how the desire to help is based on our alpha instincts and can be a beautiful thing, but when it is psychologically defended against (with inner defense mechanisms), then a bully is created. There are a lot of people in this world that fall into the grey area between helper and bully. It starts with an inflated need to control others, and so offering help to the vulnerable and compromised provides an outlet for higher levels of control. It satisfies the alpha instinct for both its altruistic and bullying capacities. In concrete reality people can go into medicine, counseling, social work, or special education where they exert tangible control over vulnerable people, and in some cases it can offer help. In other cases it can damage.

In an online community there are no tangible grasps on being able to exert control. You can't make someone sit there and be quiet. You cannot manage their concrete reality to both help and control them, so what is left? To control via text has a lot to do with controlling inner perceptions. So the person with a strong alpha instinct to provide help may also have a powerful instinct to control, and when that personal need is not met, the bully is then triggered. "I know who you are, what's wrong with you, and what you need. Listen to me or else I wear tear you with my words".

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

I had the bad luck to get a very religious classteacher and unfortunately I was the only kid not attending the religion class and well, after she found out our family wasn't christian she started putting me down in front of my classmates... I remember in my second year how I came late the second time (the first time I ran late to school was a few months before) and she went crazy over me coming late TWICE in a year. It was like ... I barely came late and she totally overreacted, even called me useless and lazy and whatnot. She definitely had some mental issues. But because of that a lot of other girls in my class started to pick on me just for making very humane mistakes, for example I once forgot to bring my math book and they made it out to be a huuuuge issue. Then my older brother, who attended the same school as me, confessed he was gay and that's when sh*t really hit the fan. They were some boys his age who decided it was time to beat him up and I just didn't want any of it, so I caught them before they could catch my brother one morning. I wasn't particularly brave or anything, I was just aware of the fact that since I partook in various different sports clubs I wasn't very scared of feeling physical pain and also I was pretty strong for my age. Of course I came out bruised and it wasn't a fun experience but my brother was... a wuss, to be frank. And someone had to do something. The teachers didn't care, by the way. We got them informed but... they gave some BS-answer that didn't even make sense and totally contradicted itself. Also, when my brother was punched in the face on the hallways my sport teacher walked by and acted like nothing happened. Like, okay. Given how at that time I was always covered in bruises (hockey isn't a good sport for you if you are scared of injuries, LOL), my mom totally bought my "got these bruises from our last hockey match"-excuse and fortunately these homophobic bastards never tried anything ever again but yeaaah ... I was really mad at the teacher for ignoring the bullying. But that's how they handled bullying in general.
A few years later my brother told my mom what had happened back then and my mom told me she knew we were both bullied but that school was the only good one around us and that's why she didn't do anything about it. Well, too bad.
I must say, although school sucked most of the time because of the bullying, a few years later when I started to study I realized (especially after talking to a former friend who became depressed after being bullied) that I myself made peace with what had happened. I personally view what had happened as bad luck, and well, everyone has it from time to time, so did I. (Can't say how my brother views the whole issue though.) But at least I had some friends in my class - all the outcasts gathered around me, you could say, LOL. And they all thought our classteacher treated me unfairly but there wasn't anything they could do. So it wasn't all bad, despite the *mysteriously* losing things, getting ushed accidentally on a daily basis and all those other accidents.

A few years later my former classteacher was fired after our headmaster realized she was a bit nuts. There was some incident with one of her students, he got into a fight after some classmate stole his purse and even though our classteacher knew that kid had stolen from him, she refused to do something about it. She always had favourites, so that student must have been one of hers and that's why she didn't do something about it So, hearing she got fired was kinda cool, though.

 

[Mole]

Not as long as I live and breath.

You are not coming to an end, dear Lark, only your individuality. And unbeknownst to you, every time you log into the electronic tribe, Typology Central, in the global village, you are whittling away at your literate individuality, and replacing it with a role, called Lark in Typology Central.

Fortunately for you, dear Lark, as this operation is performed on your psyche, you are anaesthetised by the content of the Forum, and so you feel nothing, and can fantasise about your individuality.

So like the rest of us, you are vulnerable, slightly comical, and being swept along on the course of history.