User Tag List

Page 2 of 39 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 388

Thread: Bullying

  1. #11
    Senior Member Array Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    My heart aches just reading this, substitute. There's scarcely anything worse than knowing one of our children is going through this.

    I don't know what you say to a child and am glad to see that you've been given some references. I probably thought that I did back in the day! I truly can't remember how I handled this but it did pass.

    I noticed this for my daughter at about the same age. Little girls can be especially mean to each other and it's crushing. I did observe that the role was passed around from week to week and alliances shifted just as often. That's small comfort, I know.

    I remember kids from my school, though, who became a scapegoat for as long as they were attending and I often think about what may have happened to them. I can't imagine living with that kind of emotional torture day-in, day-out for all those formative years.

    And that comment about the teacher can be true. I've seen mean-spirited teachers who allow and even support that kind of situation. So if you aren't getting staff support for your issue there I imagine it's time to speak up.

    Some thoughtful teachers are at a loss for tactics against bullying. Some think to avoid appearing to favor the bullied child that it will go away for fear of adding fuel to the fire.

    You are fortunate to be parenting in a time where this problem is increasingly recognized and taken seriously so there will be someone, surely, at the school who will hear you out should this begin to be a persistent problem.

    I do know that some of the kids who had a tough time in school turned out to be very gentle and appealing humans as though tempered by fire. Sometimes I wonder how any of us got through school without being permanently scarred.

    I'm not prone to give advice but I can manage this much: Not responding to the bullying sometimes will work after a veeery tough trial period.

    Comfort and courage, susbstitute, from another parent. The same for your daughter.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #12
    Senior Member Array Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Does this mean that you underachieved? Or did you somehow manage to still achieve your potential whilst clowning around and being disruptive? I used to know kids who 'earned' popularity in this way, but the price seemed to be gross underachievement.
    I probably would have if I had been left to my own devices. But there was no way my father would let me. I was a straight-A student all the way through high school. The teachers loved me, which probably allowed me to get away with more disruption than other children.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    heart on fire Array
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I'm not prone to give advice but I can manage this much: Not responding to the bullying sometimes will work after a veeery tough trial period.
    This is a myth.

    Myths about child bullying, school bullying, school phobia, no blame etc

    Ignore it
    Never ignore bullying; bullies use provocation to elicit a response from their target and if you ignore it the provocation will get worse. When people say "ignore it" they mean "don't engage and don't respond". When bullying starts, recognise it immediately, keep a log of events, do your research, and get your parents and teachers involved. Be persistent. You have a right not to be bullied, harassed, assaulted or abused.

  4. #14
    Courage is immortality Array Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    I found that fighting dirty, at places where the teachers couldn't intervene or witness anything was great for scaring the shit out of bullies. I think a couple of them actually thought I was going to kill them Two of them are to this day really scared of me, and i'm not really a mean person at all. They just stepped on my ego and a couple of others as well, and I made sure they paid. But there was this one guy, who I never got the chance to beat the crap out of, and I still hope I'll run into him some dark night. I wonder if all ENTJ's are like me in that aspect, I never ever forget if someone have done something humiliating to me.

    While the approach I took didn't make me popular, it made them leave me alone and treat me with respect, out of fear. I don't need such people to like me, anyway. If they are not strong enough to handle that they didn't get all the love they needed when they were babies, perhaps they should suffer.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #15
    Senior Member Array substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Hmm, yeah YLJ I can see how that approach might work for a reasonably strong boy, but for a shy and sensitive little girl I really can't see telling her to beat the crap out of them as being a viable solution Even if I told her I've no doubt that she'd never be able to do it and besides, I've also no doubt that if she did do it, they'd come back on her next time with twice the numbers and she'd pay tenfold.

    I was looking at the links you gave heart and I found this interesting:

    Bullies are popular children
    Bullies are often surrounded by other children, not through popularity but through fear. The bully is rarely able to sustain a friendship (which is based on trust, dependability, loyalty and mutual respect) but instead forms alliances which are part of their strategy for power and control. A hard look at the bully and his or her cohorts will reveal a gang or clique mentality in which true friendship is absent. Some children side with the bully because they gain sufficient bravado to act like bullies themselves - which they are too weak and inadequate to do without the bully - but most children side with the bully for fear of otherwise becoming a target - a fear that is nearly always justified. Those children who do not join the gang or clique are then targeted by the bullies who gain power from numbers
    This is absolutely the problem that we have here. My daughter K sees these kids who always have big gangs and loads of 'friends' and sees them as being popular whilst she in contrast is alone and therefore unpopular; this reinforces the impression she gets from the BS they tell her, that she's worthless and nobody likes her, and that she should aspire to being worthy of their friendship - which of course is never gained because the harder she tries the harder they laugh.

    However even if she were to understand this, it'd be small comfort for her when she's all alone. From her POV, it doesn't make much difference whether the other kids dont' sit with her because they're scared of the bullies or because they don't like her.

    I have always thought she values others' opinions of her too highly, since she was very small I've noticed that she's too easily wounded by a nasty word from a total stranger whereas even when I was a kid I had SOME ability to say 'this person doesn't even KNOW me, they're just talking shit'. It wasn't so much being unpopular that got to me, it was just the isolation (as a strong natural extravert). I never cared to be popular, I just wanted to have friends to sit with and talk to and be left alone.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    kyuuei - yes it does seem a vital thing for someone to have friends to lean on. At my daughter's previous school she was coping with it until her best friend moved away, then it became so bad that I took her out and homeschooled her for a while. The trouble is that what often happens, especially with girl bullies, is that they isolate you from those friends, they seem very adept at stirring trouble between friends and turning them against you so that you remain isolated.

    What my daughter has at the moment is that at her new school there are two kids (in a year of over 250) who went to her old school, and one of these is - for reasons unknown - apparently spreading rumours about her being 'messed up'. My daughter's very sensitive and seems to really put a high premium on what 'others' think of her, so just one kid saying she was messed up at a bus stop was enough to have her in self-loathing tears all night. You know how they say it takes a hundred compliments to undo the psychological damage of every insult? they were talking about her!!
    Well, my problems were a bit different, but I never seemed to care too much what others thought of me. I often dressed in very unfashionable clothing, to the extent that people would try to rip it up right as I was wearing it sometimes. ( I still don't dress fashionably lol) My problem also centered around girls, since they do have an acute way of being physical bullies and have more of a way with words. They are the worst in my opinion, and the hardest to deal with. I stuck to males for a long time, and even now I find talking to men is easier than women because of the way I grew up constantly thinking women were trying to be nice to me just to do something dirty and mean later on. Your daughter is much different from I though, I never had intentions of being friends with any females I just cut them out of my life. (NOT to say this was right, but it was my way of surviving.)

    My youngest sister who I raise, is having a lot of trouble with girls as well. HER problem is that she was bullied during elementary and junior high, but now that she's in high school she's found she can "get in" and be friends with people if she flirts with boys, becomes materialistic and shallow, and runs with the wrong crowd. She's so scared of saying NO to the peer pressure and being an outsider that she gets into trouble with the law and at home a lot now. Currently, she's grounded to the house for the rest of the SEMESTER for her actions so far in the year. It's been very difficult for us all, because my brother and older(but still younger than I) sister were very popular and I had a very different way of dealing with things than her.

    It's one of the worst problems because even though we're adults, we can't really step into her life and stop it so much as we want to do all we can to protect her. She's got to figure it out on her own.

    In the end though, mayhap your daughter will become stronger and get some intestinal fortitude from all of this, which might build her confidence since she would stop relying on others to get her confidence from, and in turn confidence will make friends which will keep bullies away? .... It sounded good in my head.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Array substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Hmm... I don't see much evidence of people gaining strength from the experience of being bullied. In fact I feel like I've had to painfully build and claw some strength for myself, fighting hard all the time against the psychological scars the bullying left on me. And even to this day I find myseld trying to be useful to people because it just doesn't compute for me that anyone could genuinely just like my company, so I have to somehow 'earn' people's time. I've known this guy for over 10 years, he's seen my kids born and grow up and yet I still hesitate to call him my friend in front of him in case he disagrees and feels embarrassed to be associated with me. Rationally I know this is all BS and I'm sorta over it now, but the ghosts from the past still haunt me and I have to fight against them every time I approach someone to say hello or try to make friends.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #18
    Courage is immortality Array Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Hmm, yeah YLJ I can see how that approach might work for a reasonably strong boy, but for a shy and sensitive little girl I really can't see telling her to beat the crap out of them as being a viable solution Even if I told her I've no doubt that she'd never be able to do it and besides, I've also no doubt that if she did do it, they'd come back on her next time with twice the numbers and she'd pay tenfold.
    I said fighting dirty, that means that broken bones are allowed, blood to some degree, knocking them senseless with objects etc. I used a chair, but for a weaker person i'd recommend a baseball bat or something that's easier to wield. Darkness and sneaking up on them is a good thing, too. The goal is to knock them out or scare them shitless. One of the guys I beat up bled from the nose, experienced dizziness and probably had a couple of cracked ribs. He was crying like a baby. A guy who plays ice hockey and usually walked around being a bloody menace. I did this when I was about 13. He was about six feet tall and I more than a head shorter, and a lot weaker.
    Whoever the little girl is, I bet she can beat them. But these are things that shouldn't be done without planning. Shit, if they have some sort of proof all hell would break loose. To my defense I just want to say that the guy really deserved it.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #19
    heart on fire Array
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Hmm... I don't see much evidence of people gaining strength from the experience of being bullied.


    Yes, this is another myth put out there to minimize bullying:

    Myths about child bullying, school bullying, school phobia, no blame etc

    Children who are bullied grow up to be tougher people
    Bullying is a form of violence which is designed to cause the maximum physical, psychological and emotional injury. If a leg or arm is shattered it does not become "tougher" but is likely to be damaged throughout life. It's the same with a psychiatric injury. "I feel the people I bullied grew up tougher" is a specious rationalisation by which bullies justify and excuse their actions and convince themselves of the acceptability of their thuggery by abdicating personal responsibility for their violent behaviour and the consequences of their actions on others.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Array substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    seriously YLJ, the aim isn't for her to wind up in a young offenders' prison

    she is simply not capable of any of those things and I'm damn pleased she isn't.

    I can completely understand that you might have felt justified in what you did but that really is not a viable solution in this case.

    However, fighting dirty in the sense of politically dirty, yes I can see that this might be a survival option... it's something I've used since leaving school to fend off the same thing from happening again. but really K isn't capable of that kind of guile, and I don't think that corrupting the sweet personality she has by teaching her violence and manipulation could be considered a successful outcome.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

Page 2 of 39 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Group Bullying
    By Mole in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-04-2010, 10:06 AM
  2. The Psychology of Group Bullying
    By Mole in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 09-18-2009, 01:26 AM
  3. [NT] INTx and bullying.
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 10-11-2008, 11:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •