Masculine and Feminine Energy

[Crabs]

What do these concepts mean to you? I imagine there is a bit of subjective variation, but still more commonalities than discrepancies across various cultures around the world. Many people believe that every person has some degree of masculine and feminine energy, while men tend to inhabit their masculine side more naturally and women their feminine. Do you agree with this notion? Do you think there is a biological basis for it or is it entirely conditioned from society? Do you even believe in the existence of a masculine/feminine dichotomy? And if so, what traits are defined as masculine vs feminine?

I found it interesting that Ronda Rousey (arguably a woman who has embraced masculinity to a degree that few women have) after losing her undefeated streak, was in a demonstrably feminine state, tearfully recalling thoughts of suicide as she relied on her strong man for support.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

Hi [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION]

All men and women are scaled along "so called" feminine and masculine traits. As a woman, I would say my ratio falls around 68:32.

Most humans relate better to people that have counter-balanced traits. For example, in writing we are taught that endearing characters who the public can relate to are approximately 63:37 on the scale. Gender traits are exaggerated to produce 'villainous' characters. ie. A female approaching 100 percent female traits will come off as a nympho, aggressive, mentally unbalanced, weak.. A male character at 100 percent will appear brutishly aggressive, coarse and arrogant.

Biology is huge. Society is also a contributor: a man who enjoys art, is fluidly physically expressive and sensitive will never be lauded for his 'manliness.

Yet, surrendering ourselves to our TOTAL person is an incredible measure of strength.

 

[Luke O]

Could just be hormones and how sensitive the brain is to them and that.

 

[Crabs]

Could just be hormones and how sensitive the brain is to them and that.

You mean like estrogen?

I think if a man expressed himself in the way that Ronda Rousey did during her moment of weakness: shedding tears and admitting that he's feeling suicidal, while affirming that he wants to marry and have kids with a woman who is an emotional anchor for him, he would quickly lose any sexual appeal that he may have had in her eyes. She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition.

As much as she may embody masculine energy at times, it's clear that (like most women) Ronda is attracted to a man who is more masculine than she is; not a male who exudes a great deal of feminine energy - like the awkward guy walking uncomfortably close behind her.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You mean like estrogen?

I think if a man expressed himself in the way that Ronda Rousey did during her moment of weakness: shedding tears and admitting that he's feeling suicidal, while affirming that he wants to marry and have kids with a woman who is an emotional anchor for him, he would quickly lose any sexual appeal that he may have had in her eyes. She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition.

As much as she may embody masculine energy at times, it's clear that (like most women) Ronda is attracted to a man who is more masculine than she is; not a male who exudes a great deal of feminine energy - like the awkward guy walking uncomfortably close behind her.

Where did you learn the bolded?

Because I can't think of many women who would feel that way.

When you fall in love with someone (as per your scenario), women are made to be malleable and accommodating. It would be the rare woman who would actually limit her love because a man bared his soul. Usually men bolt and/or hide their vulnerabilities and are afraid of commitment. Much to women's chagrin.

Not saying it can't happen, just not as likely as you seem to think.

 

[Luke O]

You mean like estrogen?

I think if a man expressed himself in the way that Ronda Rousey did during her moment of weakness: shedding tears and admitting that he's feeling suicidal, while affirming that he wants to marry and have kids with a woman who is an emotional anchor for him, he would quickly lose any sexual appeal that he may have had in her eyes. She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition.

As much as she may embody masculine energy at times, it's clear that (like most women) Ronda is attracted to a man who is more masculine than she is; not a male who exudes a great deal of feminine energy - like the awkward guy walking uncomfortably close behind her.

I don't think it's that simple. There's that other behaviour modifying sex hormone too, testosterone. Women make it but not in the quantity that men do. As for sensitivity to hormones, it may be due to one's biological makeup and strength of mind to resist what your hormones are telling you to do.

Ronda seems like she may produce more testosterone than the average female. She's very competitive from what I've seen and a risk taker obviously if she's putting herself in the ring to fight.

 

[Crabs]

Hi [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION]

All men and women are scaled along "so called" feminine and masculine traits. As a woman, I would say my ratio falls around 68:32.

Most humans relate better to people that have counter-balanced traits. For example, in writing we are taught that endearing characters who the public can relate to are approximately 63:37 on the scale. Gender traits are exaggerated to produce 'villainous' characters. ie. A female approaching 100 percent female traits will come off as a nympho, aggressive, mentally unbalanced, weak.. A male character at 100 percent will appear brutishly aggressive, coarse and arrogant.

Biology is huge. Society is also a contributor: a man who enjoys art, is fluidly physically expressive and sensitive will never be lauded for his 'manliness.

Yet, surrendering ourselves to our TOTAL person is an incredible measure of strength.

I agree. Hyper-masculinity/femininity can't be healthy in any individual and probably doesn't lead to very successful relationships.

It's interesting you mention that ratio. I'd be curious to see some sort of international survey indicating how various cultures rank traits on a masculine-feminine dichotomy. In the west, I think it has become too politically incorrect to acknowledge such differences at all.

I don't think it's that simple. There's that other behaviour modifying sex hormone too, testosterone. Women make it but not in the quantity that men do. As for sensitivity to hormones, it may be due to one's biological makeup and strength of mind to resist what your hormones are telling you to do.

Ronda seems like she may produce more testosterone than the average female. She's very competitive from what I've seen and a risk taker obviously if she's putting herself in the ring to fight.

Indeed, she is quite an accomplished fighter and is used to dominating her competition. Whether it's the result of hormones or the environment she grew up in, I just found it interesting that she still assumes a very submissive and feminine role in relation to her male partner, despite her image of being a strong female figure. I think it speaks to the essence of feminine energy, particularly in the realm of sexuality.

Where did you learn the bolded?

Because I can't think of many women who would feel that way.

When you fall in love with someone (as per your scenario), women are made to be malleable and accommodating. It would be the rare woman who would actually limit her love because a man bared his soul. Usually men bolt and/or hide their vulnerabilities and are afraid of commitment. Much to women's chagrin.

Not saying it can't happen, just not as likely as you seem to think.

It's my opinion.

I don't buy into the notion that men have cultivated a culture of masculinity all by themselves to keep each other emotionally repressed and boost their egos, as some have suggested. You really can't separate "male culture" from sexuality, which is an underlying pillar of all cultures and civilizations. Women's sexuality has had just as much of an impact on male culture as men's sexuality has had on female culture. It's not a mere coincidence that men tend to be more visually stimulated and women thus spend a lot of time preening their appearance; whereas, women are generally more attracted to expressions of masculinity, and male culture consequently involves demonstrations of strength, utility and dominance.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's my opinion.

I don't buy into the notion that men have cultivated a culture of masculinity all by themselves to keep each other emotionally repressed and boost their egos, as some have suggested. You really can't separate "male culture" from sexuality, which is an underlying pillar of all cultures and civilizations. Women's sexuality has had just as much of an effect on male culture as men's sexuality has had on female culture. It's not a mere coincidence that men tend to be more visually stimulated and women thus spend a lot of time preening their appearance; whereas, women are generally more attracted to expressions of masculinity, and male culture consequently involves demonstrations of strength, utility and dominance.

Yes, but you deflected.

I wanted to know where you learned this (quoting you): "She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition."

Or what experience you had that made you think this for women 'in general'.

- - - Updated - - -

It's my opinion.

I don't buy into the notion that men have cultivated a culture of masculinity all by themselves to keep each other emotionally repressed and boost their egos, as some have suggested. You really can't separate "male culture" from sexuality, which is an underlying pillar of all cultures and civilizations. Women's sexuality has had just as much of an effect on male culture as men's sexuality has had on female culture. It's not a mere coincidence that men tend to be more visually stimulated and women thus spend a lot of time preening their appearance; whereas, women are generally more attracted to expressions of masculinity, and male culture consequently involves demonstrations of strength, utility and dominance.

Yes, but you deflected.

I wanted to know where you learned this (quoting you): "She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition."

Or what experience you had that made you think this for women 'in general'.

 

[Crabs]

Yes, but you deflected.

I wanted to know where you learned this (quoting you): "She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition."

Or what experience you had that made you think this for women 'in general'.

- - - Updated - - -




Yes, but you deflected.

I wanted to know where you learned this (quoting you): "She would likely not want to stay involved with such a man. There may be a few exceptions, but in general, women are not going to respect or remain attracted to a male partner with that sort of disposition."

Or what experience you had that made you think this for women 'in general'.

I didn't "learn" it. It's my opinion based on observations that women value strength in men, not weakness. There is oftentimes a contrast between what some women say they value in a partner (idealistically) and what they are attracted to in reality. Still, I've never heard a woman say that she wants a man who is emotionally unstable, weak, depressive, etc.

If the tables were turned and Ronda Rousey's (or any woman's) boyfriend started crying and said that he was contemplating suicide and is relying on her for emotional support, but wants to get married and have children with her, I highly doubt she would realistically jump at the opportunity to procreate with that man.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I didn't "learn" it. It's my opinion based on observations that women value strength in men, not weakness. There is oftentimes a contrast between what some women say they value in a partner (idealistically) and what they are attracted to in reality. Still, I've never heard a woman say that she wants a man who is emotionally unstable, weak, depressive, etc.

If the tables were turned and Ronda Rousey's (or any woman's) boyfriend started crying and said that he was contemplating suicide and is relying on her for emotional support, but wants to get married and have children with her, I highly doubt they would realistically jump at the opportunity to procreate with that man.

Ahh, but if they were in love with him, they would.

Have you ever been in love, or is all this hypothetical heresay on your part?

 

[Crabs]

Ahh, but if they were in love with him, they would.

Have you ever been in love, or is all this hypothetical heresay on your part?

Love is often predicated on attraction. When you remove attraction, love frequently follows. Just look at the divorce rate.

I've been in love, but I've never made a woman my emotional anchor to keep me alive or anything.

Needless to say, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[Mustafa]

Like Luke O said, it could be the brain. Women are bad for agents. Like warriors.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Love is often predicated on attraction. When you remove attraction, love frequently follows. Just look at the divorce rate.

I've been in love, but I've never made a woman my emotional anchor to keep me alive or anything.

Needless to say, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Okay, that is fine by me.


But I would like to say that as you fall in love with another person, and the two of you grow closer, the strengths and weaknesses, issues and attributes, all begin to meld together. In this there can be healing which cannot happen alone, or which can take longer alone.

To say that a woman who loves you cannot handle a suicidal ideation or any other difficulties is selling short the one who would love you.

I just don't see most women being like that, being a woman myself and working among women.

Thank you!

 

[Crabs]

Okay, that is fine by me.


But I would like to say that as you fall in love with another person, and the two of you grow closer, the strengths and weaknesses, issues and attributes, all begin to meld together. In this there can be healing which cannot happen alone, or which can take longer alone.

To say that a woman who loves you cannot handle a suicidal ideation or any other difficulties is selling short the one who would love you.

I just don't see most women being like that, being a woman myself and working among women.

Thank you!

Fair enough.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

I agree. Hyper-masculinity/femininity can't be healthy in any individual and probably doesn't lead to very successful relationships.

It's interesting you mention that ratio. I'd be curious to see some sort of international survey indicating how various cultures rank traits on a masculine-feminine dichotomy. In the west, I think it has become too politically incorrect to acknowledge such differences at all.

Yeah [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION], in other parts of the globe attitudes do differ. ie. I've been in countries where it is considered impressive when men weep with strong emotion. It's perceived as strength and they don't have to hurriedly wipe tears away at funerals or births etc...

I still can't find the workshop I was telling you about but there is a test I think you will get a kick out off. It's clearly for purposes of entertainment and not scientifically viable

Male Or Female Brain? Brain Gender Test

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I agree. Hyper-masculinity/femininity can't be healthy in any individual and probably doesn't lead to very successful relationships.

It's interesting you mention that ratio. I'd be curious to see some sort of international survey indicating how various cultures rank traits on a masculine-feminine dichotomy. In the west, I think it has become too politically incorrect to acknowledge such differences at all.

Yeah [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION], in other parts of the globe attitudes do differ. ie. I've been in countries where it is considered impressive when men weep with strong emotion. It's perceived as strength and they don't have to hurriedly wipe tears away at funerals or births etc...

I still can't find the workshop I was telling you about but there is a test I think you will get a kick out off. It's clearly for purposes of entertainment and not scientifically viable

Male Or Female Brain? Brain Gender Test

Thanks for the link! Female dominated brain.

Some of the questions were so lolz.

 

[Thalassa]

A lot of this is cultural. In some cultures it's considered strong for a man to grieve openly or express strong emotions. Ancient history is full of symbols of female warriors, or angry women. Expression of grief or emotion, or else fighting and being angry, don't really have gender.

Things which I do think have gender are the ways cultures are shaped - rigid, black and white, extremely structured culture is masculine and approximate, flowing, less structured cultures are feminine. Modern day America is an exaggeration of masculine energy, all the way down to the destruction of the natural environment - historically speaking an imbalance of masculine energy is associated with death and destruction.

This plays a part in Western feminist thought as well. I tend to embrace the hippie earth mother environmental vegetarian embrace your moon driven and less structured, creative, playful feminine side as a valid expression of feminism, because it's honestly more Feminine and going to balance out Western society more than when Western feminists become overly masculine and seemingly join the patriarchy on its original terms, by covering up their sexuality and climbing the corporate ladder. I'm not at all suggesting that all feminists confirm to Feminine energy - but this aspect of Western feminism stands out like a sore thumb to me, and especially more so to Eastern people. ..because their culture is typically still more balanced between the two sides. Except for China. I believe China is also over-Masculine. ..this is a result of Confucionism historically speaking, and Taoism was a more Feminine answer or Balanced answer, in Chinese spirituality and philosophy.

I think Catholics are more Feminine than Protestants in the Christian church, on the whole, though individual churches may vary...while Protestants in some cases are more likely to accept female pastors now, the Catholic Church has a longer history of acknowledging the Divine Feminine through Mary. Their "pagan" or transcendental practices are also more feminine and more recently so is their concern for "Sister Creation."

 

[Mole]

Natural Selection says it is the adaptable who survive. And men adapt to women and women adapt to men.

Speaking of male energy or female energy misses out on the biological fact of adaption.

There is a sense in which there is no independent male or female, just the dance of adaption between male and female.

The idea of an ever changing reciprocity between men and women is hard to comprehend because we see ourselves as independent individuals, with an independent male or female essence.

In spite of appearances there is no independent tiger essence. The tiger has successfully adapted to its environment. The tiger is a creature of its environment.

In the same way male and female are creatures of their environment, and their environment is each other.

So to speak in terms of female or male energy is to speak in linear terms, and to speak in terms of female and male adaption is to speak in curved terms. So instead of marching in straight lines together male and female curve around each other in the dance of Natural Selection.

It is the difference between linear and exponential. And linear mathes are easier to understand than exponential mathes.

 

[Mustafa]

Check out Taijitu.

 

[Crabs]

I agree. Hyper-masculinity/femininity can't be healthy in any individual and probably doesn't lead to very successful relationships.

It's interesting you mention that ratio. I'd be curious to see some sort of international survey indicating how various cultures rank traits on a masculine-feminine dichotomy. In the west, I think it has become too politically incorrect to acknowledge such differences at all.

Yeah [MENTION=23796]Crabs[/MENTION], in other parts of the globe attitudes do differ. ie. I've been in countries where it is considered impressive when men weep with strong emotion. It's perceived as strength and they don't have to hurriedly wipe tears away at funerals or births etc...

I still can't find the workshop I was telling you about but there is a test I think you will get a kick out off. It's clearly for purposes of entertainment and not scientifically viable

Male Or Female Brain? Brain Gender Test

That's interesting. I'd be curious to know what traits those countries view as masculine vs feminine.

A lot of this is cultural. In some cultures it's considered strong for a man to grieve openly or express strong emotions. Ancient history is full of symbols of female warriors, or angry women. Expression of grief or emotion, or else fighting and being angry, don't really have gender.

Things which I do think have gender are the ways cultures are shaped - rigid, black and white, extremely structured culture is masculine and approximate, flowing, less structured cultures are feminine. Modern day America is an exaggeration of masculine energy, all the way down to the destruction of the natural environment - historically speaking an imbalance of masculine energy is associated with death and destruction.

This plays a part in Western feminist thought as well. I tend to embrace the hippie earth mother environmental vegetarian embrace your moon driven and less structured, creative, playful feminine side as a valid expression of feminism, because it's honestly more Feminine and going to balance out Western society more than when Western feminists become overly masculine and seemingly join the patriarchy on its original terms, by covering up their sexuality and climbing the corporate ladder. I'm not at all suggesting that all feminists confirm to Feminine energy - but this aspect of Western feminism stands out like a sore thumb to me, and especially more so to Eastern people. ..because their culture is typically still more balanced between the two sides. Except for China. I believe China is also over-Masculine. ..this is a result of Confucionism historically speaking, and Taoism was a more Feminine answer or Balanced answer, in Chinese spirituality and philosophy.

I think Catholics are more Feminine than Protestants in the Christian church, on the whole, though individual churches may vary...while Protestants in some cases are more likely to accept female pastors now, the Catholic Church has a longer history of acknowledging the Divine Feminine through Mary. Their "pagan" or transcendental practices are also more feminine and more recently so is their concern for "Sister Creation."

I agree with you about western feminists embracing masculinity to a large degree. It seems that some eastern countries are perhaps more feminine than they are balanced, however - both men and women. I've heard that is why some guys have a penchant for Asians, because they're so docile and dainty in contrast to western women whom collectively became more masculine over time. I personally don't find the average western woman to be too masculine though.