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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm bothered by how fast Extraverts move, and how mercurial their attention seems to be. When I actually like an Extravert, I feel like it's a monumental chore just to get them to care about me.
    So what would I have to do then, hypothetically, for you to see it as a sign that I care? And what about my short attention span makes you believe it's a sign that I don't? Genuine questions, not rhetorical
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  2. #72
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    So what would I have to do then, hypothetically, for you to see it as a sign that I care?
    This one is going to have to be put on hold as I ponder it for a while

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    And what about my short attention span makes you believe it's a sign that I don't? Genuine questions, not rhetorical
    To me there is a correlation between investment and interest (this sounds like economics), so the less someone appears to be paying attention to me, the less interested I figure they are. Pretty standard reasoning I think.

    Also, it becomes a matter of compared value. When Extraverts seem to take interest in anyone and anything, it makes me feel really unspecial. Like I'm just another pebble in the gravel.

    For whatever reason, I've developed strong feelings almost exlusively for Extraverts in my personal life, so I've become all too aquainted with this feeling of insignifigance.
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  3. #73
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    Interesting, Magic... you know, ExxP's are very able to pay A LOT of attention to A LOT of things all at once.

    Think of it as the amount of energy you need to expend in interacting with the external world. Introverts, it's quite a bit of work so you can only do one thing properly at a time and you have to really devote yourself to that thing for the time being. But for me, as soon as I notice something I can be engaged and the more I do so the more it energizes me, so I can keep doing it ad infinitum. I can literally be having two conversations at once and the next day I will remember both of them; I'll also ponder over both of them afterwards.

    Also remember that a lot of the time, because extraverts NEED lots of external interaction, and because we know you get back what you put out, we can often find ourselves in a position of actually not paying as much attention to the thing that REALLY interests us as we'd like to, and instead feeling we've got to pay attention to something that, at the moment, isn't very interesting.

    IOW I'm very in tune with dynamics in a group and the individual needs and stuff of each person. You could be talking to me about something fascinating and I'm loving the way you express yourself and wishing the rest of the group would disappear so I could just concentrate on you. But the woman over there talking about brands of cat food, I know she's been really down lately and that she gets easily offended if I don't talk to her when she's there, but I know that when she's in a good mood she's great company so I don't want to risk upsetting her and so I've got to keep one eye on you and one on her. Then there's also the guy over there who's telling me about his new stereo, a subject I'm totally clueless and indifferent about, but I know he's been having trouble with his marriage lately and won't talk about it to anyone so I know that the only way I have of keeping tabs on how he's doing is to look for clues while he's talking about his stereo, so I've got to keep another eye on him.

    All the time while this is going on, I'm making a mental note saying to myself "as soon as I get the chance I'm gonna ask Magic to lunch and then we can just talk with each other, without these nerks in the way, but at the moment I've got to divide my attention." But then for a while I keep getting sidetracked by more 'in your face' and demanding people and it really does pain me to have to keep postponing my invitation to you. I'm actually hoping, if you get the time before I do, that you'll contact me first and then we can arrange something, then when one of these other people tries to claim my time I can legitimately tell them I have other plans and finally get to spend time with you like I wanted to!!

    Perhaps an INTP isn't as plugged-in to all these other things, and is therefore more able to ignore them and just seek to talk to one person and sorta command their attention. But it's really not so easy for me to do that.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  4. #74
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    But introverts don't want anything from you. You giving is your choice. Meeting you partway, as you would like, does not make sense to an introvert because they feel no obligation to connect with you(well, except ISJs, it seems), so it seems strange that they should even bother.
    This is kinda what I feel like. Sometimes I get the feeling that some extraverts are using me for their own amusement, because they're bored. Like, we'll be stuck in a room together, and the person (strangers, I'm talking about here) will interrupt what I'm doing so they won't have to find something else to occupy their thoughts. I'm actually a pretty friendly person, but if I'm already doing something, or if I'm already feeling socially anxious, and you're a stranger, then I won't feel any obligation to have a big chatfest with someone else. I'll be nice and polite, but I won't feel obligated bond with said person.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But this leads me onto something else: I know that it isn't always hard work for introverts to talk. In fact, I know an ISTP who will rant until the cows come home, an ISTJ who will talk forever about movies and the latest scientific theories from New Scientist, and an INFP who will sit on the sofa and, for as long as you keep passing her coffee and cake, she'll keep chattering away with you until the small hours, with no sign whatsoever of fatigue and every sign of feeling quite energized and happy.

    You must admit that at least sometimes, it's not REALLY because talking is such a chore, but perhaps something else? Is it possible that the introvert might sometimse have been too quick to judge a person as not worth talking to? Or do they really want to talk but are just too shy or nervous?
    Yes, both these things can be factors. Sometimes I'm in a more extraverted mood, too. Sometimes I get in such a loop of my own thinking that I don't even know HOW to put my thoughts out into the world. Sometimes I'd rather die than have to socialize, because it just feels like I don't fit in anywhere. My personality is greatly affected by the other person's personality, too. There are some people that I feel like I could talk to forever, right off the bat, and others I feel guarded around. But just because I don't trust you immediately doesn't mean I won't later on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    They may think that you don't like them- especially given their own preference to extraversion.. they are probably thinking, "Why does this person not want to go out with us and just be by herself all night? She must hate spending time with us so much that she would rather be bored at home.."

    However, if you let them know of why you don't want to go out, they may understand better.
    This is why I do better with friends than strangers and acquaintances/colleagues. If someone's taken the time to be your friend and learn what you're like, you can explain to them that you're just introverted and, even though you really like them, you need some time to yourself. Where I run into trouble is that i'm good at making small talk when I need to, just to get by, but it's not my natural bent. Then it creates an expectation for people who are just acquaintances later on, and they generally WILL take it personally when I don't want to go out with them after work or something. I have never figured out a way to assure people that I like them and still be able to be allowed to be myself. You can't please everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    For example, the introvert who does actually, for once, want to join the party, but sees the extraverts over there laughing and talking away and just doesn't want to go up and join because they think they'd look stupid or not know what to say. Or the extravert who gets a couple of hours alone in the office with the shiningly intelligent introvert whose contributions to board meetings have caused the E to really admire them and want to talk with them in more depth about their subject, but the E doesn't want to approach the I because he feels the I sees him as shallow and stupid and not worth talking to, and would just rebuff him.
    And how sometimes these perceptions are totally wrong...
    I think most introverts would be really flattered if you approached them about something specific about them that you noticed. Then we would have a connecting point, and we'd know that we'd caught your eye in some specific way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Talking isn't a chore most of the time. It's about comfort levels for me. I'm very nervous about interacting with someone I don't know well, because I have no idea how my ideas will be received by the other person. I've been written off time and time again with the phrase, "You're so weird." So, I stopped talking to most people. Every once in a while I do find people who seem to be open to me being myself, and when I find those people I eventually open up and talk more (often until my throat hurts or I literally start falling asleep out of exhaustion).

    I understand that this is my problem, not the extravert's. I'm trying very hard to overcome it and be more confident and be able to be more personable, but it's been a long and slow process.
    Yeah, this applies to me, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I really don't think it's that interesting. I'm bored just talking about it. If it seems the person really wants to hear I'll be more willing to share, but if I get a sense of they're just doing small talk and don't care I'd rather not. I will make an effort, but I usually don't have anything to talk about. What I do no one usually wants to talk about like how a cloud looks or some theoretical endeavor that's never going to happen as it is not possible/ unlikely. Such as kidnapping an elephant and traveling around the world on it.

    I will bring it up sometimes but based on their reaction, I know when to back off and not talk about things like that. I'm less likely to bring something like that up first conversation.
    Yeah, I'd love that kind of conversation. I hate conversations like, "So! What do you like to do for fun?" I have no idea how to answer that. And I feel pressure to be interesting. And I feel like I probably won't be interesting. So I'd rather just stay in my head, where it's interesting all the time. Who knows, maybe we should all open with the elephant line and see where it takes us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Yeah, exactly. And that is what frustrates the hell out of me regarding Is. Jeez Louise folks - open your mouths. It ain't hard. And if you don't say anything, I cannot read what is going on in your brain. So I either think a) You feel uncomfy, and I want to help you to try to relax. b) You just don't give a shit or c) You are just retarded. In the case of b or c, I am likely to just move on and think, "What a dipshit! This person has a tree so far up their ass that there is no hope for them. And if they ARE so bright, why don't THEY introduce a topic?!"
    Because we imagine that you're thinking these things about us. We're not saying anything, so we must be boring. I don't have the energy to make myself interesting to you (you in the general sense, not you specifically, LL), and where is it written we all have to like each other? Some people just don't click, and that's okay. Maybe later we'll find a way to bridge the gap and find a common interest, but why spend an hour beating ourselves over the head trying to find one now? I'm a little sensitive to people reading my silence as "having a tree up my ass," so my response has usually been to just avoid interaction with folks that would tend to assume that about me. It saves me a lot of heartache and self-esteem issues, with me trying to make myself over into someone else's image.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm bothered by how fast Extraverts move, and how mercurial their attention seems to be. When I actually like an Extravert, I feel like it's a monumental chore just to get them to care about me.
    Yeah, me, too. I'm learning lately that it's not as I always assumed. My ENFJ and ENFP friends might have a lot of friends, but they're not all on the same "level," and they put a lot into their relationship with me, which I'm very grateful for.

    They also frighten me a little because I know they are more prone to acting without reflecting, and violating my space/privacy. I'm usually more worried about what Extraverts are going to do than with Introverts.
    Yeah, I'm sometimes fearful of extraverts, because I'm so guarded and private, and I don't like sharing just anything with anyone. I have to trust someone first. My good ENFJ friend scared me at first because she barraged me with questions, and I had no idea a) why she was doing that, and b) why she wanted the information. I didn't know if I could trust her, and that made me really, really nervous. I finally asked her about it, and she hadn't even realized she was asking that many questions. She just has a curious mind, and she was interested in knowing more about me, since I was different.

    I think it takes a while for me to really read people, and the more people you put into the equation, the more anxiety it causes for me. So in the meantime, I just have to trust my intuition. Perhaps it might be a good idea for introverts to take a chance and open up a little more and for extraverts to take things a little less personally?

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah
    Sometimes I get the feeling that some extraverts are using me for their own amusement, because they're bored. Like, we'll be stuck in a room together, and the person (strangers, I'm talking about here) will interrupt what I'm doing so they won't have to find something else to occupy their thoughts.
    Ever consider that perhaps YOU are occupying their thoughts? Honestly, I do see pretty much everyone I meet as a potential friend and if I'm always open to any moment being an opportunity to make a new friend. My intentions are genuine, I really do hope we can find something to relate to each other about and see each other again after I get called into the dentist's room

    *continues reading*
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah
    This is why I do better with friends than strangers and acquaintances/colleagues.
    Sometimes I feel much more at ease around strangers because they can take me as they find me, because I'm quite a changeable person who tends to evolve a lot, often the people who've known me the longest can be really the ones I feel most 'trapped' around by past personas that I've been with them and their perceptions and expectations of me. Whilst with a stranger I've got a clean slate, a chance to be my real self without any past baggage.

    But what you say about learning to take things less personally, that's really good advice that I've been working on for a while! it is really hard though not to take it personally, though...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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  7. #77
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I have a question for the introverts here.

    Would you be content living your life as a hermit?
    If I didn't have the need to have a partner in life, hell fuck yeah. Women are the only thing keeping me out of the woods, seriously.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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  8. #78
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Sometimes I feel much more at ease around strangers because they can take me as they find me, because I'm quite a changeable person who tends to evolve a lot, often the people who've known me the longest can be really the ones I feel most 'trapped' around by past personas that I've been with them and their perceptions and expectations of me. Whilst with a stranger I've got a clean slate, a chance to be my real self without any past baggage.
    Ah, you know, I can relate to that, as well. I think I feel most myself, and most extraverted when I'm travelling, because there is the freedom to be exactly who I am or who I want to be right at that moment, without being encumbered by the past and by expectations.

    I think where I run into problems is in situations where I have to be around people I haven't chosen to have to interact with. Work situations, for example. Because I can be friendly and nice and even chatty at work, but I only have so much energy for it after work, and when I go home, I want my time to myself. But people take it personally if you don't want to socialize with them afterward.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Because I can be friendly and nice and even chatty at work, but I only have so much energy for it after work, and when I go home, I want my time to myself. But people take it personally if you don't want to socialize with them afterward.
    I'm the same if I've been in a 'fish out of water' situation. Not all social interaction energizes me. One of my Aunt Dawn's famous family reunion barbecues is a prime example - I spend a whole day feeling completely disapproved of, disappointed in, misunderstood, like a failure and a freak and I hate, hate, hate it. There are some people in my extended family I love to see but most of them I don't relate to at all, I'm totally a black sheep. I'd so rather go home and just have a beer or two with my best pal and talk shit the evening long, or just sit and watch old Star Trek DVD's on my own and get the dishes done. But I know that to some people it means a lot, me going to this damned thing, and in the end it's easier to just go and grit my teeth through it than to wade through the fallout if I don't. And in the end, it's just a few hours every couple months or so, not the end of the world.

    So I go...

    Actually at the end of that barbecue I feel like I really totally do need to be alone for a bit. It's really stressful for me and I can't talk about it with anyone cos nobody does really get why it's so stressful. So it can be annoying when after I've come back from there some friends call and want to come over (as usual) with DVD's and pizza for the evening and I have to say no, and I know they try to be understanding but I know they're hurt, really.

    Sometimes it's easy to have a sorta 'minimum duty' thing so like, you go out with your colleagues once in a while just to show you're not snotty and stuff, and then they'll understand eventually that it's just not your scene, nothing against them personally...?
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  10. #80
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I'm actually much the same in that respect. I will give up trying to make a point or express myself if I feel I've reason to believe it's pointless, but only after trying first. On rare occasions I might figure it's not even worth trying but in those cases my Ne often still gets the better of me even while Ti's desperately trying to pull the brakes lol
    Yeah, but for you Ne is in charge, for me Fi is in charge; this makes for a slightly different dynamic.

    I have always had that feeling of myself too and still do most of the time. What pushes me to speak up is when I feel like I have to speak for a silent minority or some vulnerable person either present or not, whose interests I don't think are being considered and who has reason to be even more reluctant to speak. So even though I still feel like nobody will listen I force myself to try, I'll do this when it's for someone else like I wouldn't for myself.
    Again, I'm from the school of "don't throw your pearls before swine". I test light material from things I want to talk about; if I see eyes glaze over I don't bother discussing it with that group anymore. Each word I give is valuable to me and if my audience doesn't at least appreciate that, then I am speaking in vein. I would rather spend an hour alone than spend more than 5 minutes on an audience that doesn't care.
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