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  1. #61
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post

    But can you see how that contributes to the image of selfishness and arrogance? I don't want anything from you so fuck off? I don't care whether you need anything from me, I don't want to bother with you so fuck off and tough shit? That's quite an alien viewpoint to me... I mean whether you feel like talking or not there's such a thing as manners...

    I'm no stranger to the idea of someone trying to force me to talk when I don't want to, but I'd figure it was only courtesy to keep a person informed verbally and also to assume at first, give them the benefit of the doubt, that they're not actually meaning to irritate me but are doing so out of some misguideed idea or other. So does it really hurt to just say "I'm sorry I don't mean to ignore you, I'm just really not in the mood for X right now, I guess I'm just a bit tired, mind if I just read to myself for a bit?" And I'd be like oh yeah sure, sorry, no problem.

    Surely that's better than just rebutting someone's friendliness with signals that all seem to the E to say "get lost you idiot, I don't need you!"
    Well, what if I told you that I'm afraid to talk in certain situations because I'm worried I'll look like a slacker if I start talking to people instead of looking focused, and at other times, I'm afraid to presume I'm good enough to ask for anything from the other person? I'm basically afraid that if I say anything to them, they're going to say, "Who do you think you are, that you can ask for my attention? You're nobody, and I'm busy anyway!" Or that even if they don't say it, they're thinking it. Basically, I'm worried that my presence will be a burden or distraction for the person, and I'm trying my best not to get in their way. Extraverts are always so busy, it looks like everything is hanging in a precarious balance. I'm honestly amazed that they can juggle so many things, and I don't want to be "the straw that broke the camel's back," so to speak.

    If a person needs something from me, I'll make every reasonable effort to give it to them. I'm just not comfortable asking for anything in return, because I don't want them to think I need them. I don't want them to think I'm needy or pathetic because I couldn't take care of what ever it was myself.

  2. #62
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Would you be content living your life as a hermit?
    I probably could be fine with it, although it wouldn't be something I'd do out of free will. Close to it is about perfect, living somewhere out of the way up in the mountains. Not because I dislike interacting with people, but I really like my peace and quiet...
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  3. #63
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    In groups I will throw in bits, but if you don't listen you won't hear it. If I see no reaction to what I say I shrug it off and don't bother after a certain point.
    I'm actually much the same in that respect. I will give up trying to make a point or express myself if I feel I've reason to believe it's pointless, but only after trying first. On rare occasions I might figure it's not even worth trying but in those cases my Ne often still gets the better of me even while Ti's desperately trying to pull the brakes lol

    Maybe I am trying to shake 18 years of being programed with "no one cares what you think Run, shut the fuck up".
    I have always had that feeling of myself too and still do most of the time. What pushes me to speak up is when I feel like I have to speak for a silent minority or some vulnerable person either present or not, whose interests I don't think are being considered and who has reason to be even more reluctant to speak. So even though I still feel like nobody will listen I force myself to try, I'll do this when it's for someone else like I wouldn't for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Talking isn't a chore most of the time. It's about comfort levels for me. I'm very nervous about interacting with someone I don't know well, because I have no idea how my ideas will be received by the other person. I've been written off time and time again with the phrase, "You're so weird." So, I stopped talking to most people.
    Up to the last sentence that was me to a T as well. Again with me it's not confidence that really pushes me up to the plate but Ne just sorta controls me. I have to know something, so I have to ask the question or make the suggestion or something. I honestly feel just as nervous as the shyest introvert. But if you think you get written off for being weird, imagine life as an ENTP, a slave to Ne that makes you wear your eccentricity on your sleeve, so much harder to hide it!! LOL

    For a while it did make me stop talking to people and for most of the time from age 14 to about 25 I was very shy and reclusive. Eventually though when certain barriers to do with my appearance were amended, I began to come into my own. I still get written off, slagged off, shouted down, criticized etc... but for some reason it just doesn't stop me. As I say, I think it's Ne being just more powerful a driving force to externalize than any complex or insecurity I have that drives me to withdraw. But those complexes don't disappear just because Ne is having its way with me - I often feel, the entire time that I'm talking or whatever, that I'm making a fool of myself and everyone's laughing at me. That's why it means so much to me that someone gives me feedback, that they talk back just to give me some clue as to what they're making of me. If they want me to tone it down a bit then that's fine, I can understand that and I'm REALLY grateful for being told.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Whether I'm comfortable talking to introverts depends entirely on how introverted they are. When I try to talk to REALLY introverted people, I get really thrown off, because I can only function in a conversation when I get equal contribution on the other side. (And by "contribution", I mean talking.)
    Yes, I'm often aware belatedly that the person has written me off as a blabbermouth and I hear introverts on these forums all the time talking about how extraverts talk 'for the sake of it' or how we're full of 'meaningless drivel' and stuff like that, as if I'm just talking to satisfy some egotistical need to get attention or something, and it's quite hurtful really because in reality it's the opposite of what's going on, I'm actually really trying to reach out to the other person and the more I say the harder I'm trying to build a bridge or try to find some foundation for building it on.

    But then again, I know this introvert who never says anything unnecessary, and always has the right thing to say, and never says anything mean or rude. He pretty much seems perfect at first glance. I have a very hard time talking to him because it's like talking to a saint and it makes me feel like a bad person. Do any of you know people like this?
    Yes, I've had that feeling very often. I got to know a guy who gave me that vibe to start with and found he was very fallible and just as human as the rest of us, but what he didn't realize was that all the 'shit' I talk isn't actually my thought-out opinion - that's me thinking, it's me sifting through info and trying to brainstorm really, hoping for his input, to help me actually reach my conclusion. But then you get that look and it's like they think you're an idiot, you feel constricted and like you can't be yourself and just talk like you would with normal people lol for fear of that terrifying, non-committal 'hmmm'. What does he MEAN by that??!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by iluvstellacat View Post
    But it just isn't that commonplace, in reality, for people in this world to take the time to see the situation from the other person's perspective. I'm really not certain that everyone even has the ability to think outside the box regularly.
    I agree that it's the root of the problem and that it's rare for people to try to do it, but I'm sure most people COULD do it if they tried, because people who can't do it are called autistic...

    With that said, it would be nice if the world worked in terms of everyone always seeing the other side of the story, but it's just not going to happen. I've found, as I get older, that as people mature they do understand the subtleties of others points of view a bit more. .... I think the conflict between E/I fades a bit over time and with maturity, for reasons that I'm not exactly sure of.
    I agree. It's funny though, how when you do realize these things and adjust your behaviour accordingly, life actually gets better doesn't it? When you're younger you fear that it's all compromise and not being true to yourself, and you fear that if you adjust then you won't be yourself any more. That attitude develops over time I think, as you realize that you can improve and develop without losing your core self. A table is still a table both before and after it's been covered with a fabulous lacquerwork pattern

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I really don't think it's that interesting. I'm bored just talking about it. ....What I do no one usually wants to talk about like how a cloud looks or some theoretical endeavor that's never going to happen as it is not possible/ unlikely. Such as kidnapping an elephant and traveling around the world on it.
    I love conversations like that!!

    For me smalltalk, talking about 'safe' stuff is about just testing the water, it's opening negotiations, you could say. I'm starting off asking you about things I hope you won't have any difficulty answering and hopefully things that can't be offensive to anyone or whatever, but going by the way you answer I'll pick up vibes about what kinda person you are and where your limits of what you want to talk about or might be offended by etc, are, from the subtle stuff like body language etc, and it's the same with most extraverts I think. We just don't want to go diving into deep and meaningful stuff without knowing it's alright with you to do that, it's not because we can't or don't enjoy talking about anything meaningful or imaginative, like ever.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  4. #64
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Yeah, exactly. And that is what frustrates the hell out of me regarding Is. Jeez Louise folks - open your mouths. It ain't hard.
    Well it can be really hard, you must know that yourself, I can't believe you've never felt insecure or nervous or like you're not sure what the right thing to say is. For most introverts, from what I can gather, most social interaction means feeling that way constantly, so it is hard and I sympathize.

    I find it interesting that although I'm also riddled with insecurities and complexes about people thinking I'm boring, stupid, shallow, whatever, I STILL TALK ANYWAY. And though at least half of the reason is Ne compelling me to want to find stuff out, I know the other half is that I genuinely want to get to know this person, I am interested in them personally, sincerely.

    And if they ARE so bright, why don't THEY introduce a topic?!"
    I've thought this many times before though... quit staring at me like I just crawled out from under a rock, if you think I'm so crappy because I don't talk about anything that interests you, why don't YOU initiate something for us to talk about that DOES interest you, rather than assuming I'd be incapable of understanding your fathomless mind!

    Actually in the past my ENFP brother has referred to introverts as having what he calls an 'originality complex'. They think a lot of weird stuff but because they don't talk to people much they think they're the only ones who think it or that it's only y'know, really exceptional people whose books they read and assume they wouldn't relate to normal mortals. Whilst the ENxP thinks of just as much crazy shit, externalizes it all and thereby finds a lot of other people saying to them all the time "Hey! I thought that was just me!"
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #65
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I have one question for all people here, who think of themselves as social.

    How much is Fe important to you and why it is?

    I ask as a person with the lowest Fe score on this forum.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    This may sound a bit strange, but I'm easily intimidated by INFJs. I don't know. They just seem so contained and mysterious, and for some reason, I always expect that they're going to react in more adult manner than me on any subject from self-adhesive envelopes to spandex trademark infringement. They see some angle I don't, and then they might say it aloud, and then I'll be sitting there thinking, "Good point. I didn't see that" and everyone's nodding, "oh yes, INFJ person has done it again! how clever!"

    I feel like the drunk aunt with the skirt over her head.
    Yes, I know what you mean. INFJ's make me very nervous too, I'd sooner brave the ENTJ boss that got out the wrong side of the bed with a hangover and who I've got to tell the figures are down 20% on last month, than face an INFJ who I've got to tell that her coffee is ready... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Man, if I had to live my life like a hermit, I would pretend that there are people around me and would have imaginary conversations and stories and interactions with them just to prevent myself from going crazy.

    BAH! Life as a hermit - terrible.
    Yes, that's pretty much how I was when I was very shy and isolated for many years. I lived as though I were an introvert but I'm not, I am and have always been very very externally oriented. I did have a whole host of imaginary friends that ironically, kept me sane

    There's a real running theme though of people feeling just inadequate generally.

    Here's a thought that an old monk gave to me when I was going through the initial phase of opening up my life and being the extravert I am after the isolated existence I described above, and I used to go to him for advice and a shoulder to cry on because I screwed up soooo much... and I was so sure everyone hated me and would tell me to get lost if I approached them.

    Monk: so if a person approached you to ask you a question or just to be friendly, would you tell them to get lost?
    Me: No!
    Monk: Why not?
    Me: That'd be like, really rude and mean and they'd feel like crap.
    Monk: It'd make you a bad person for doing that, right?
    Me: I guess so.
    Monk: So this person you want to approach, do you think they're a bad person?
    Me: Um, well no, I guess not otherwise I wouldn't want to approach them
    Monk: So what makes you think they'll react like a bad person?
    Me:
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 09-01-2008 at 02:10 PM. Reason: merged posts
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #67
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that some things you can not conclude what the outcome will be (even by discussing it into oblivion) until you just do it and find out.

    But then again, maybe that's just me being very "S".

  8. #68
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    I am of the opinion that some things you can not conclude what the outcome will be (even by discussing it into oblivion) until you just do it and find out.

    But then again, maybe that's just me being very "S".
    If it is, then I'm as S as they come.

    I didn't mean to totally hog the thread lol I just had some RL socializing to do for a while and came back to see lots of things to reply to! lol Carry on...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #69
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Oh, you can post all you want. I don't mind. This is a discussion board, after all and meant for that. I just meant that I'm not sure if one can ever predict how a stranger will react to them but it's very likely that if you are friendly, they will be friendly back. It does foster courage going into it thinking positively about it. I think you are right that there is a theme of inadequacy for both I's and E's.... and I agree with your Monk friend. I wish I had a Monk friend. That must be awesome.

  10. #70
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm bothered by how fast Extraverts move, and how mercurial their attention seems to be. When I actually like an Extravert, I feel like it's a monumental chore just to get them to care about me.

    They also frighten me a little because I know they are more prone to acting without reflecting, and violating my space/privacy. I'm usually more worried about what Extraverts are going to do than with Introverts.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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