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  1. #21
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The big wide world isn't even educated enough about introverts and extroverts to make any of it obvious at all. Most people don't have a working understanding of introversion and extroversion anyway. They may know on some level that some people behave this way and some behave that way but that still doesn't stop them from behaving in the patterns they do when one meets the other.

    It seems so goddamned ingrained. Can we change it?
    Well there's the people I'm interacting with here in this thread, who ARE aware of these differences, and I'm trying to talk about

    a) how people here, being aware, relate (or don't) with their E/I opposites whether those other parties are aware of the differences or not
    b) how people who are introverts and extroverts but not completely aware of it, might intimidate each other, and theorizing as to various aspects of this
    c) whether most people really aren't aware anyway, whether they're into MBTI or not, that they're more of an extraverted type of person or introverted.

    The words are in common usage, though not with quite the same specific meanings as in MBTI, and yes i'm sure it can be changed, especially when into one community of X people in the world 'out there' can be inserted one person from here, who is consciously aware of these differences.

    1 - how that person could work to improve relations between themselves and others
    2 - how they could reduce misunderstandings between others not aware of MBTI, by using their knowledge.

    But really, I didn't have an agenda as such, so quit INTJ-ing me!!
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  2. #22
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Athenian - no, of course I'm not trying to argue that E's are better than I's, only talking about how things look/feel from my personal perspective and inviting others to do the same in order to broaden that perspective

    But what you say does make perfect sense, though it might surprise you that I often feel the same way with the roles reversed... I've sometimes felt like an introvert has judged me as superficial and shallow just because I'm able to enjoy light conversation with a load of strangers, and nothing I've been able to say or do subsequently has been able to alter that perception.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #23
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    I think Introversion vs Extroversion is about as difficult a subject to get the other person to understand as Thinking vs Feeling. It gets a little tiring for me sometimes having people feel the need to pull me out of my shell, as if I must be so sad and lonely because I stayed home and watched a movie on a Friday night or I didn't talk enough at so and so's bday party.

    I'm not really intimidated by extroverts. But I do sense they are intimidated by me at times. I pretty much have an attitude of "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want" most of the time and have no problem dishing that out in a very strong manner if someone comes at me too strongly in their misconstrued perception of what's best for my wellbeing. A lot of my friends over the years have been ENTJ's, who for the most part seemed to respect me and lay off when I stood up and explained this to them.

  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But really, I didn't have an agenda as such, so quit INTJ-ing me!!
    Pssh. There's an agenda in there. It's just buried. And I will find it.

    I have just noticed some of the things you've said. That you are the one who is 'always giving' and that the conditions for an introvert to come out is 'diva-like'.

    But introverts don't want anything from you. You giving is your choice. Meeting you partway, as you would like, does not make sense to an introvert because they feel no obligation to connect with you(well, except ISJs, it seems), so it seems strange that they should even bother.

    I have never been able to understand why extroverts found introverts so arrogant and cold. Introverts are kind of like deer, rather. They're too easy to spook and jump in front of cars when you least expect it. Like pretty pests. If you really want an introvert to pay attention to you that badly, you're best off getting a hunting rifle.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #25
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Athenian - no, of course I'm not trying to argue that E's are better than I's, only talking about how things look/feel from my personal perspective and inviting others to do the same in order to broaden that perspective
    I thought so. Although to be honest, I sometimes wonder if Extraverts are better adjusted in general. The world seems to work better for them in general.

    Broadening the perspective with personal experiences? Sounds like a good plan.
    But what you say does make perfect sense, though it might surprise you that I often feel the same way with the roles reversed...
    That's exactly what I was trying to say... that I feel exactly the same way you described, but with the roles reversed. Interesting, huh? It's like a mirror thing.

  6. #26
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    They don't intimidate me anymore, but if I'm not interested I use a lot of short neutral phrases. People intelligent enough to pick up on that though tend to either talk about things I'm interested in and may be able to reply to with out having to think much or someone I could care less about offending.

    Me being intimidating? Sure, I'm judging about 80% of the words you say and how you say them. I will not approach you because 90% of the people I've tried to approach bite my hand or ignore me when I initiate the conversation (I've asked about the weather and got shot down, like WTF?). Say something interesting and I'll jump at it. 9 times out of 10 I'm spaced out and not noticing anyone, bring be back to earth first before you open your mouth or you will be disappointed. Give me time to construct my answer otherwise you will be disappointed. Don't like it, that's fine; unlike you I don't need to make the acquaintance of the entire room.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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  7. #27
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    This is a common misunderstanding and since I've started to understand the root cause of it I've been able to adjust, however I do sometimes wonder why it's always me that has to do the adjusting and wouldn't mind if people made a little effort to meet half way...
    I think the case of me meeting half way is to keep the conversation "light". Humor and stuff. The problem comes at play when the extrovert is enthusiastic about what he's saying. I need time to think about it, and this could seem like I'm not interested. And he goes on to try to convince me about his favorite subject.. For these situations I have a whole bunch of sentences like "the way I see it, is this...". After I say something like this, I can think for a moment about how I want to say something, and the extrovert is aware that I am actually going to say something so he doesn't go on talking or change the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    The E doesn't know it, but he's making the I feel bombarded and like you describe nolla. But the I doesn't realise that by retreating further and further they're making the E feel like nothing they can do or say is of any interest, that they're seen as contemptible and not worth their time. Without realising it, the I is making the E feel very frustrated and even hurt, because as far as the E is concerned, if someone has something to say then why don't they just say it? And if they don't have anything to say and just don't feel like talking, why not just say that also? Why sit there and let me blabber on, boring you to death??
    Yeah, but you see, the I cannot talk if he doesn't think about it for a while. I usually think about what I want to say, but also about how I should say it so that the person I say it to will know exactly what I am saying. This stuff takes time, and I need to take that time if it is important that I get the point across. If it is a light subject, I don't care that much and could talk just to keep conversation going.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    It can seem to me like the number of 'requirements' for an introvert to actually speak, the circumstances that they seem to need in which they feel willing to share, open up or just participate at all, seems to sometimes be so specific and almost diva-like, a list of demands that are hard for the E to fulfill or even identify, and if we don't manage to get everything right for them then they just write us off and leave.
    It is also about the introvert's attitude. I think the Ne attitude of discussion in me is very different from the Ne-Fi attitude. I do go into this different mode. I'm pretty sure my humor is completely Ne. Intuition is the fastest process, so it is very possible for me to have quick responses, but it has to be subject that I know about a lot, or subjects that don't matter.

  8. #28
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Annoying: sometimes. Intimidated: no.
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    Ti Ne Fi Ni

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    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
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    -Yes, my dear.

  9. #29
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    By the way, if my talking is required to get business done, I do it. If I see or hear something interesting I work out if I can initialize, and upon seeing that I can, I do it. Basically talking, for me is work; it's not play, it's not refreshing, it's work. If you want me to work you damn well better make it worth while, that's meeting half way.
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  10. #30
    Senor Membrane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Although to be honest, I sometimes wonder if Extraverts are better adjusted in general.
    Of course they are. If their name wasn't extrovert, it would be adjuster. Their attitude to the world is to see what there is and adjust, while introverts are self-preservers.

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