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Thread: Depressives

  1. #31
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    I agree with strawberryfields' first post, but I think there's a difference between the genuine depressive who is actually suffering from clinical depression, with whom I do sympathize and will try to help, and the pointlessly emo teenager who lives in a constant pity party, for whom I have zero patience.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I agree with much that has been said since I last posted.

    Even with clinical depression, unless it is of the psychotic type, a person is seeing the world around him about as accurately as anyone given that "reality" is a subjective concept. It is their interpretation of meaning which is damaging to them, I think.

    That's why Jennifer's thought about re-evaluation of life-view is salient.

    Many, I'm not cognizant of the percentage of, depressed people can live lives within the community and do, as Victor reminds us, but the problem remains lack of personal funds to maintain their care.

    Some of the whiny, immature stuff irritates me to no end but I am reminded that it is part of testing the waters of grown-up life and finding one's sense of security. Is my opinion respected? Am I right? Do you have anything to offer me? Do I fit? Where in the spectrum? Do I matter?

    All those damned questions. . .

    It's really the lack of manners that cause me the most aggravation and they do send me seeking quieter waters, in a sense abandoning someone who may want help finding their answers to those very questions.

    So INFP of me!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    ...."reality" is a subjective concept.
    The work of children is play.

    And the purpose of play is to learn a distinction.

    And that is the distinction between the imagination and reality.

    This is why children need a safe place to play - we do not let them play in the street because they might get run over.

    So play is children's first life task.

    And when it is complete they know the difference between imagination and reality.

    They learn that although imagination can be shared, it is fundamentally subjective.

    And they learn that reality is completely objective - if you kick a rock, you hurt your toe, and if you fall from a height, you hurt yourself.

    Unfortunately the Romantic Movement, and now the New Age Movement, teach that reality is subjective.

    This is called regression.

    Regression from childhood to infancy.

    And a normal phase of infancy is the narcissistic period. But healthy children grow out of it by learning more distinctions such as the distinction between imagination and reality.

    And how interesting that the New Age Movement is replete with narcissism.

    Narcissism which is only appropriate for infants.

    And so the New Age Movement is infantile.

    So quite naturally it says that reality is subjective.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Even with clinical depression, unless it is of the psychotic type...
    But Clinical Depression is a psychosis described in DSM-IV.

    So all those who are Clinically Depressed are psychotic.

    And all psychotics are out of touch with objective reality.

    And in particular the Clinically Depressed are out of touch with objective emotional reality.

    Of course New Agers deny that there is any such thing as objective emotional reality - that is why New Agers are so damaging to psychotics.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    I don't think those who are depressed are anything of an interpersonal lost cause. Talking to people (forums rather than one-to-one, at first) helped me at my lowest. It gave me a chance to be passionate and creative at my leisure and then receive recognition for it. Then singular people became interested in me, and that took things to a new level: I began to feel a sense of giving that I found very rewarding, and there's something deeply beautiful and esteem boosting in the thought of someone having the time just for you. That you're worth someone's time with no ulterior motive (except perhaps the reciprocated joy of connecting with another); I hadn't believed that before, and then I got proof. I suppose I have the internet to thank for that.

    I think if anything can help, it's connecting with good people. The people of Holism, the altruists. And simply the optimists; those who can emphasise the good in others. It's infectious.
    This is wonderful.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I don't know whether to be angry at you or apologise to you.
    Probably neither would be a good response.

    I didn't really do anything that should have earned an anger response, nor did you try to offend me personally since your OP was about one of the depressives who sits around and makes everyone else's life hell. (If anything, I was annoyed at a rant masquerading as rational thought... but that is not a personal issue.)


    And quite naturally I want to share my excitement and delight - so I told you a little story about the panther - but you were unable to respond.
    I see no panther in this thread. Where is the panther hiding? I'd like not to get eaten.

    So in future I will not make the mistake of trying to stir you to delight. And I will also not make the mistake of interpreting your flatness as a rejection of myself.
    I think that is a good approach, since the performance anxiety would kill me.

    I do think, though, it is good of you to be open about your depression - it avoids misunderstandings and false starts.
    I'm pretty open about many things, and I'm not ashamed to have been struggling with depression and anxiety. To me, it just is what it is, just like getting cancer, and we just deal with it. How we deal with it, I guess, is where any personal culpability comes into play.

    You and I are emotionally very different - sympathy between us is probably not desirable and empathy may be difficult to achieve.
    I have some vague sympathy, and I'm working at the empathy, although honestly sometimes I'm not quite sure what you're trying to convey.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    As I understand it, the psychotic is out of touch with reality. The schizophrenic's thoughts are out of touch with reality, while the emotions of the Clinically Depressed are out of touch with reality.

    And it is fairly easy to understand what it means to have your thoughts out of touch with reality. But it is much harder to understand what it means to have your emotions out of touch with reality.

    And this difficulty is compounded by the fact that often the emotions of the schizophrenic are in touch with reality, even though their thoughts are out of touch with reality.

    And that often the thoughts or the Clinically Depressed are in touch with reality, even though their emotions are out of touch with reality.
    Thank you. All these years thinking about this, and I had never perceived that pattern/relationship before. I appreciate the clarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Some of the whiny, immature stuff irritates me to no end but I am reminded that it is part of testing the waters of grown-up life and finding one's sense of security. Is my opinion respected? Am I right? Do you have anything to offer me? Do I fit? Where in the spectrum? Do I matter? All those damned questions. . .
    That is a good nuance to remember.

    I remember being more coldly judgmental when younger, until I got more life experience. How I perceived things then was that, even if I could see the best and/or most sensible resolution/approach to the situation, human beings often cannot aspire to such things like a machine would. They sometimes also have to grow to a particular maturity level before they can do the "best thing." So my judgment had to take not just the "best solution" in hand but also allow for a reasonable arc of time to explore and mature before that solution could reasonably be implemented.

    Having kids helped immensely. I was disappointed many many times inside and thought they just weren't trying, then realized my expectations were unreasonable and had to adjust for where they were in life and where they had been and look at it as a growth arc. Results were MUCH much better when I approached it with that understanding.

    So yes, I'm not much for whiny depressed emo crap either, if it seems self-indulgent, but there's still a place for that in people's lives -- IF it's just a waystation on a journey that is going much further. It's when people put down roots and set up a permanent camp in EmoWorld that I'd get frustrated and put on the heavy boot, to do some serious kicking.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Unfortunately the Romantic Movement, and now the New Age Movement, teach that reality is subjective.

    This is called regression.

    Regression from childhood to infancy.

    And a normal phase of infancy is the narcissistic period. But healthy children grow out of it by learning more distinctions such as the distinction between imagination and reality.

    And how interesting that the New Age Movement is replete with narcissism.

    Narcissism which is only appropriate for infants.

    And so the New Age Movement is infantile.

    So quite naturally it says that reality is subjective.
    The New Age movement comes out of the New Thought Movement of the 19th century, Phineas Parkhurst Quimby is largely seen as the father of New Though, not Keats. It became a largely feminist movement with many women taking the lead, such as Emma Curtis Hopkins.

    New Thought developed out of Mesmerism and faith healing.

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