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NF vs. NT Debate! (Fun and Educational)

Delphyne

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
144
MBTI Type
INFP
What I think in the long run, what every thinker needs from a feeler, is help to gain hold on his F-ness. My F-ness is Fe so I am talking about good manners, with others thinkers it is Fi and more romantic.
Yes, I like to understand my Te better, but it´s not easy. A lot of battles with an ENTJ have showed me that there are resemblances, but Te is too much black-and-white and I love all those shades in between. Though Te is really fascinating in its own way.
 

Delphyne

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
144
MBTI Type
INFP
See, I gotta say - I think I really have the ability to do multiple things because my functions are not so haywire like many people's, regardless of what test I take.
It´s just a test. I often score as a T and I´m Fi to the core.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Yea that I call a "balanced" function implementation xD
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yea that I call a "balanced" function implementation xD

See, seeeee? There are good aspects to a balanced personality!!!!! :) You can understand and respect others while having something unique to offer. :D
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
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xNFP
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sx/so
Sometimes I wish I could understand everyone and everything, you know? I would love to enter people's minds for just a glimpse to see what is there and what is going on. To see the motivation and to understand. But I guess human interaction and discussion is the closest thing I have :).
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
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sx/so
There are some exercises:
How to Experience Different Function-Attitudes

I´m curious if Te dominants find the Fi experience as boring as the Te exercise seems dull to me.

Gut reactions:

Introverted Intuition: Dude I do that all the time; let's check this out!!!!

Introverted Feeling: Whoaaa I have enough practice with that!!!! But okay, let's try

Extraverted Feeling: Damn, I hate it when I forget someone's birthday. Shit, I remember then I forget. Bad exercise.

Extraverted Thinking: Man, I do this every time I prepare a class. First this, then that. But wtf? Why worry - it's always different than I plan it anyway?? Damn, I'm always thinking out loud. Most people think I'm schizophrenic....DOH!

Introverted Sensation: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PLEASE STOP THE TORTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Extraverted Sensation: OMG!!!!! I HATE THIS!!!!!! PEOPLE WATCHING SUCKS!!!!!!! UGH, not doing this crap.

Introverted Thinking: Whoaaaaaa, duuuuuuuude, the lines move *stares for five minutes*
 

entropie

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entp
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*gg* I am still onto the line thing, does not understand half of the english from the text though.

I find an idea of that kind pretty great. Will read into it in the next days. For today my mind is stuffed with 446 pages for the exam tomorrow.

Should have seen me today LL, never been so focussed in all my life xD. I watched Scrubs, learnt for the exam, chattet with my better half, made burgers today (got a new recipe for self-made mayonaise) and i talked to my parents about my 14 year old sister bragging around a bit at the moment.

Pretty stuffed up right now xD
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
*gg* I am still onto the line thing, does not understand half of the english from the text though.

I find an idea of that kind pretty great. Will read into it in the next days. For today my mind is stuffed with 446 pages for the exam tomorrow.

Should have seen me today LL, never been so focussed in all my life xD. I watched Scrubs, learnt for the exam, chattet with my better half, made burgers today (got a new recipe for self-made mayonaise) and i talked to my parents about my 14 year old sister bragging around a bit at the moment.

Pretty stuffed up right now xD

:))) I'm proud of you!!!!!!!! :D :hug:

You should get some sleep soon - you'll need it to do well on your test! I know you'll make it!!! :)

Speaking of sleep, I'm getting tired, so I am going to bed. Lots of luck for tomorrow!!!

Tomorrow we can continue with staring at the lines (I'm so easily amused). :-D
 

SquirrelTao

New member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INXX
But why did you mention that you do not know about almost nothing about NT - NF relations at work?

I thought I did say that.

Why didn't you create theoretical model for you argument but instead you gave a lot of personal information?

The personal information provided more possibilities for how feelings can relate to work besides "having feelings = seeing NTs as jerks". Feelings can come into work in positive ways as well. I provided personal examples of how this can work, but the options I provided are not unique to me. I'm sure others must have discovered how to cope in these same ways before. At any rate, more possibilities exist besides the negative side.

Since topic is what it is I dont see a reason to post so much and in so many painfull details if you don't feel personaly attacked or emotionaly connected to situation.

The reason to provide personal details is because the only data I have about how an NF uses feelings in the workplace comes from my own personal experience.

If you want to say that you are proud of what you have achieved that is ok.
Don't you think that this job would have been easier in the case that it wasn't so stressfull. The stronger T can have easy time in many situation because they don't create emotional connection with the situation.

I disagree. My husband is a stronger T than myself, but he gets more stressed at work, because he has a harder time accepting stupidity.
 

SquirrelTao

New member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INXX
AntiSocial one, let me provide the next topic of debate.

Has the human intellect done more harm or good in the world? Are we in technological, civilized society really better off than indigenous people living deep in the rainforest? (to the extent that some still do without being disrupted) Can we humans with our capacity for reason and technology really do better than evolution already did?
 

Apollanaut

Senior Mugwump
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
550
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
AntiSocial one, let me provide the next topic of debate.

Has the human intellect done more harm or good in the world? Are we in technological, civilized society really better off than indigenous people living deep in the rainforest? (to the extent that some still do without being disrupted) Can we humans with our capacity for reason and technology really do better than evolution already did?

In a recent survey on happiness, hunter-gatherers supposedly reported a level of happiness equalling or exceeding that of modern technological man. Of course, you have to take these surveys with a pinch of salt because it all depends on how you define "happiness".
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
First I want to end this part.


The personal information provided more possibilities for how feelings can relate to work besides "having feelings = seeing NTs as jerks". Feelings can come into work in positive ways as well. I provided personal examples of how this can work, but the options I provided are not unique to me. I'm sure others must have discovered how to cope in these same ways before. At any rate, more possibilities exist besides the negative side.
The reason to provide personal details is because the only data I have about how an NF uses feelings in the workplace comes from my own personal experience.

The whole point here is that you could have dodged the question by giving another question as answer or giving far more indirect answer. Why didn't you, I don't know.


Case closed.

Now I am going to our first real chapter.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
AntiSocial one, let me provide the next topic of debate.

Has the human intellect done more harm or good in the world? Are we in technological, civilized society really better off than indigenous people living deep in the rainforest? (to the extent that some still do without being disrupted) Can we humans with our capacity for reason and technology really do better than evolution already did?

In this topic I will take classical definitions of right and wrong.


Human intellect can do many things that are quite usefull. But evolution is very slow process so human brain did not have the time to adapt to current situation.
What I mean by this is that there was no time to weaken the F function in it's way of functioning and lower it's representation in population.(In Fs and Ts)
 

SquirrelTao

New member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INXX
The whole point here is that you could have dodged the question by giving another question as answer or giving far more indirect answer. Why didn't you, I don't know.

Yes, I know I could have challenged you for proof of your assertion or something like that. Thing is, I want my debates to be interesting, even if it means taking more risks. Playing it only by safe strategies is boring to me.
 

SquirrelTao

New member
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May 28, 2008
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INXX
In this topic I will take classical definitions of right and wrong.

Which are? ...

Human intellect can do many things that are quite usefull. But evolution is very slow process so human brain did not have the time to adapt to current situation.

I also believe this.

What I mean by this is that there was no time to weaken the F function in it's way of functioning and lower it's representation in population.(In Fs and Ts)

But I disagree with this. I think the problem is that the T function bit off more than it could chew while not being sufficiently influenced by either the F or the N functions.

And now we have both made unsupported assertions.

What shall we do next?

:coffee:
 

sophiedoph

New member
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
94
MBTI Type
INFJ
I don't want to start with some big argument so I will with a small one.
This is just to get started.


As I have said in the other thread that I have impression that F take things too personaly. Sometimes they even create deep connection with something and they defend it at all cost even if it is very ilogical to do it.

What can be quite bad for them in business environment is alot of NTs.
NFs will say that they are good with people. But they are not that good with people because they have large problems with NTs. Every time NT becomes impersonal NFs suffer because of that and usually says that NT is acting like a jerk.

I disagree. At least this INFJ can handle most general NT/T bluntness. I have issues when the bluntness/criticism seems based on vengefulness or general dislike.

If someone whose opinion I care about is upset with me, it is very difficult for me to get past that.

Constructive criticism and general bluntness is fine.

I agree that it is a problem in the business/legal world--Fs often need to be able to disregard the opinion of others, but it's hard to develop, at least for me. I can't turn off my empathing, absorbing the feelings of those around me.

That said, I am a decently successful business owner and also have a career in a largely TJ dominated field. I am surprisingly *excellent* at negotiating settlements for my clients (who often don't have a bat's chance in hell), in large part, I believe, to my ability to connect with others.

All that said, I definitely think Fs can bring a lot to the table in business, etc.
 

SquirrelTao

New member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INXX
i have come to think about those T and F things

What if you think about mankind like aeons of time back. Their perception towards reality has to has developed somehow.

If you think about T being the ultimate function to understand nature and the physical world, due to it being inherently logical.

Then it could be that F is the function that understands the human, who are the only thing in nature that is inherently illogical.

That would it make a perception style of the world that has developed through aeons of years by perceiving how humans are best to behave with each other. In terms of self-preservation. And that counts for the T and the F.

The only differences would be:

T = understanding of thw world (for example the hunt, to feed the family)

F = understanding of human development (for example caring and nurturing the family)

In addition this would explain why woman are more prone to F and men to T. Because in the long run of mankind's history woman have been incapacitated to become hunters, cause they were in the business of conceiving. Gosh my english is bad, I hope you do understand me.

I think there's a lot to this, but I would like to point out that women were gatherers and made crafts and grew agricultural plants and did fishing, so they related to nature as well. In tribal societies women have more help with caring for their babies. Also they wear their babies and have their hands free. Babies are much easier and happier. Thus women find it easier to combine mothering with making an economic contribution to their society. I would relate my experience with my baby, with trying to get as close as possible to more traditional parenting practices in postmodern America. But then AntiSocial one would say I am feeling it too personally. So I guess I can't share valuable insights that come from my personal experience if they are relevant. Sorry.
 
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