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  1. #1
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Default Male F, Female T

    Do you think that it is harder to be a male F in a society where men are stereotyped as alligning more with thinking traits. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a female T in a country where women are supposed to naturally be more feeling oriented. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a male F or a female T?

    Are male Fs less expressive with their feelings than their female counterparts because of societal expectations? Are female Ts more likely to act more nurturing and emotional than male Ts because that is what is expected of them?

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    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Do you think that it is harder to be a male F in a society where men are stereotyped as alligning more with thinking traits. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a female T in a country where women are supposed to naturally be more feeling oriented. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a male F or a female T?
    I would say that women have a somewhat broader spectrum of options at their disposal today than men. A woman showing "masculine" traits is at least showing traits that are mostly considered positive, a man showing "feminine" traits is showing traits that are often considered inferior. That is unfair towards F men and yet another reason why both genders benefit from a move to more equality and flexibility.

    That doesn't mean that breaking stereotypes is always a walk in the park for T women.


    Are male Fs less expressive with their feelings than their female counterparts because of societal expectations? Are female Ts more likely to act more nurturing and emotional than male Ts because that is what is expected of them?
    Probably yes to both. Upbringing and social expectations do play a considerable role. There will of course always be exceptions.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #3
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
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    I would guess it's probably harder for F men than T women. Men are expected by society to be tough and stoic, and any man who shows visible emotions (at least, the softer emotions) is thought of as "unmanly". T women are branded as "ice queens", but I don't think there's as much negative stigma around that.

    Gender stereotypes in general are exasperating.

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    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    I agree with everything @redherring and @BadOctopus have stated. Gender stereotypes are toxic to male F types. Feeling is seen by our society as "feminine" and being "feminine" is being "weak", so Feeling males who use their natural dom/aux functions are seen as "weak". It's a bit better for women Ts, because being a T is considered "strong" and "masculine" which is okay, but even then, they might get criticized for not being "feminine" or "womanly" enough.

    Nobody can ever win.

  5. #5
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    It's a strange place to be, being a feeler, and a male, that's for sure. I took on a lot of things that I had zero interest in, just because I am a man. Being sole supporter, mowing the lawn, grilling, home improvement, grunting, etc. I found value in some of it, like building things and self sufficiency, others I felt utterly disconnected to, like being a financial and rational bulwark. It all ended up being a bit too much for me.

    I definitely have ended up with some serious Te skills, level of competency, and pragmatism that I feel that female ENFP's aren't pressured to cultivate, which is a shame in itself.

    I guess I can't really compare my experience to a female thinker's in society, except I feel commonality in the imposition of gender roles. Even though 'rationality' is considered more of a positive trait than being 'emotional', I would imagine that for a woman, that path is nearly as thorny than just being what you're expected to be. Having a tougher time is not a prize that I care to fight for.
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    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Let's not pit misery against misery when (as we all know) everything is terrible for pretty much everyone almost all of the time.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth
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    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Let's not pit misery against misery when (as we all know) everything is terrible for pretty much everyone almost all of the time.
    No it's not, I'm as cheery as can be

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    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Let's not pit misery against misery when (as we all know) everything is terrible for pretty much everyone almost all of the time.
    My misery is more misery than yours!

    *wins invisible social prize on the 'I have it worse' one upsman scale!*
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    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Do you think that it is harder to be a male F in a society where men are stereotyped as alligning more with thinking traits. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a female T in a country where women are supposed to naturally be more feeling oriented. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a male F or a female T?
    I can't speak for Female T's, but as a male F...it has its moments. My female partners seem to appreciate my "F'ness" as it were, but other males I end up inevitably having an conciliatory relationship with. I guess I give off a vibe of being really easy to talk too so all my guy friends seem to come to me when they're having emotional issues. I'm not sure why, but there it is.

    As for "society", some of it I think is age but I'm old enough now (early 30's) where I just don't really care. I get the occasional odd look when I go see a rom-com/chick flick by myself at a movie theater or something like that but I generally conduct myself as most men are expected too so I generally don't run into problems. I imagine that has to do with me being an SJ though more than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Are male Fs less expressive with their feelings than their female counterparts because of societal expectations? Are female Ts more likely to act more nurturing and emotional than male Ts because that is what is expected of them?
    As a male F, it's a mixed bag. My INxP-ex told me I was very restrained with my emotions (an odd commentary coming from someone as emotionally constipated as she was) while my current INFx (playfully) makes fun of me for how cheesy I can be.

    I think I'm fine, personally.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson
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  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    I would guess it's probably harder for F men than T women. Men are expected by society to be tough and stoic, and any man who shows visible emotions (at least, the softer emotions) is thought of as "unmanly". T women are branded as "ice queens", but I don't think there's as much negative stigma around that.
    Probably not overall, the F males probably get the worst; but it can create isolation when trying to associate with groups of other females, and it can come into parenting ("What's wrong with her? Why isn't she mothering her kids in the overt ways I do, does she not want to be a mom? Doesn't she care?" etc.)

    There are more situations in life besides dating and one's occupation, which is usually where the "ice queen" comment comes up.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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