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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Could being in a large family vs. being in a small family affect how the child learns to relate to others dramatically enough to overset the limitations of a particular type? Would an ISTP girl born in a house full of extroverts be likely to have better control over her Se at a younger age? Or is type something that pretty much develops independently, at a set pace, not unsettled by near anything? Bit of both? Of course the ISTP female would still need that time to recharge with Ti, but would she have developed more creative and low-key ways of getting that time? When do you start to bend with those around you, and where is the tradeoff? Is there always a tradeoff?

    most introverts need alone time to recharge. for me personally i just need time to do my own thing. I dont care if someone is with me or not. As long as its a me thing i am good. I also generally dont associate with needy people because i would have to recharge away from them and i dont like that. I tend to gravitate towards people i can recharge while in their presence.

    Edit: well not socialyy needy. Can do needy wher it leaves me doing my own thing to help
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #62
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    I think you misunderstood me. Probably because my poor English...
    What I meant is that T female or F male could use their natural functions less in the environment where they would not feel accepted (because they’re in minority). And because of that they could change their behavior (to follow social expectations).
    I see. Thank you for clarifying. In my experience, however, NTs at least are less likely than other types to worry about whether they are accepted or to allow that to constrain their actions. We can learn what is expected, so we can act that way if it is essential for getting something done. Otherwise we will go our own way regardless of the (dis)approval of others.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kas View Post
    I think you're right about it. My INTJ friend just says that she prefers now when she has more reasonable people around.

    They say that INFJ type is the one that seems to be mature very early. I don’t remember knowing any INFJ as a kid (?), but I noticed something similar about INTJs among the people I know. Is it typical?
    It is definitely better as an adult, when I associate with groups more of my choosing, rather than at school which was attended by any age-mates in the town. INTJs tend to mature very early in some respects. We usually do very well in school, become self-sufficient quickly, and can learn to do lots of useful adult things. We take in a great deal of information through reading and listening, and form our own opinions long before the subject topics are even on the radar for most of our peers.

    By contrast, our emotional development and social skills are often said to lag those of our peers. Perhaps so. We do so well with our strengths, I think we just don't see the need to work on our weaknesses until much later. The deficiency didn't seem to do me any harm. I don't think better social skills would have led to more acceptance from peers at that age. They teased and bullied plenty of kids who were more outgoing, friendly, and sensitive as well. If anything, I think those kids were hurt more by it. It is in the nature of INTJs to distance themselves from others, not to take things personally, to prefer solitary pursuits, and to respond decisively when they do choose a battle. All of this is good protection against bullying and ostracism.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes BadOctopus, asynartetic, Kas liked this post

  3. #63
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I see. Thank you for clarifying. In my experience, however, NTs at least are less likely than other types to worry about whether they are accepted or to allow that to constrain their actions. We can learn what is expected, so we can act that way if it is essential for getting something done. Otherwise we will go our own way regardless of the (dis)approval of others.




    It is definitely better as an adult, when I associate with groups more of my choosing, rather than at school which was attended by any age-mates in the town. INTJs tend to mature very early in some respects. We usually do very well in school, become self-sufficient quickly, and can learn to do lots of useful adult things. We take in a great deal of information through reading and listening, and form our own opinions long before the subject topics are even on the radar for most of our peers.

    By contrast, our emotional development and social skills are often said to lag those of our peers. Perhaps so. We do so well with our strengths, I think we just don't see the need to work on our weaknesses until much later. The deficiency didn't seem to do me any harm. I don't think better social skills would have led to more acceptance from peers at that age. They teased and bullied plenty of kids who were more outgoing, friendly, and sensitive as well. If anything, I think those kids were hurt more by it. It is in the nature of INTJs to distance themselves from others, not to take things personally, to prefer solitary pursuits, and to respond decisively when they do choose a battle. All of this is good protection against bullying and ostracism.
    Not an INTJ but I remember reading ahead of the class in certain subjects. I really couldn't help it. Drove some teachers and most classmates insane..."oh he's just trying to be an overachiever"...not so much, really.

  4. #64
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    ST male: Normal.
    Not all...

  5. #65
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    the biggest thing is the difficulty in connecting with others from a place of vulnerability. like we NEED female partners who are emotionally vulnerable. even as, lifestyle design-wise, we benefit from T the most. it's confusing, but our engendered interaction limitations, the roles we can take, prevent us from meeting our emotional needs with other guys. so it's a fucking mess. female Ts have an easier time rooting out other female Ts. male Fs have to embrace that sacrifice of themselves in order to get into that space. against every status imaginable, when T (female or male) still wins in the workplace. what do we get? we get family, love, personal truth, authenticity, aesthetic sensibility and art. what is the worth of that in a capitalistic, opportunistic economy that cashes in on control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I have seen a few male Fs who were bullied at school (not knowingly for their preference by more for their lack of desire for logic and their more reactionary responses to jibes). It can be almost like they dislike themselves for not being able to do the male thing and set their minds to do evil things in response. In fact my best man often gets quite wound up because he would like to be less caring and get more of what he wants... But he can't quite manage it.

    As for T women, I think that half the time they are blissfully unaware of any issue. I think the problem usually comes from other females who don't like this new vibe and pick a pack they attack to redress the unwanted behaviour. Of course most people are cowards so they do it passive aggressive.
    sx times F is a fucking disaster. the thirst for power while knowing, ultimately, that your heart wins. could anything house as much conflict?

    when you want but don't want to own her. when you know her beauty is the best thing. when the way she can glow is what matters most to you. but your desire to win distracts you from the whole of your truth. which wants to serve too. which wants to give. which wants to love unconditionally.

    I have one new member of staff who seems to be ISTJ or INTJ and she's rubbing other women up the wrong way. They see her as almost snobbish where as I've found her to be blunt but fascinating to talk to. Oddly enough my ENFJ boss is blunt to a fault and she doesn't like this woman either.

    Some days I just imagine an F brain working like a popular soap opera... The drama, the complicated and slightly unbelievable plots... Mind you, I am a cynic.
    us F types need reality checks too. surrendering to reality is a big step in the right direction. the beginning of focused presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I'm not sure it's that bad being a male F, I think it just depends how your F manifests itself. I actually meet a lot of male ESFJ's who initially seem pretty masculine, like they just absorb the expected male social norms and act them out. And INFX's aren't really weirder than INTX's in the eyes of society.
    yeah, but e3 is the success adopter. they're the one's who focus on winning the most. the rest of us have to deal with the conflict in more complicated ways. we don't get to be just the channel. we have to be ourselves. and that is an enormous burden in an economy of empty ideas.

    I know other EFP men who are very popular and not considered soft or anything. They're usually funny, or good athletes/performers or something. There's also quite a prevalent stereotype of men being overgrown boys who can only drink, watch sports, and screw up fatherhood. That stereotype could easily be an EFP guy (though it could also be other types).

    Furthermore, if you're a young Pe-dom with Fi, the Fi doesn't necessarily show up that much until you're older. I know when I was in high school, I was definitely thought of as more Tish (not that they knew types, people just thought of me as a math whiz/computer programmer). I was never very masculine, but now I am feeling a very strong pull from my Fi, to the point that some of my old guy friends don't relate to me as much as they used to. I've gotten spiritual and more feely (we're all connected, let's talk out our feelings, all that stuff), and they're still very Tish guys. They kinda take shots at me now, about being like a woman.

    Being a feeler, doesn't make you necessarily effeminate. That being said, I think because feelers put more priority on connection, intimacy, and their own feelings, they are more likely to allow themselves to be vulnerable and open to others, which might cause them trouble as men.
    agreed. 7 still has a kind of doing, extroverted focus. introverts are different. we're not gaming as hard. more of a wishing on a star. more of a waiting for the truth.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Do you think that it is harder to be a male F in a society where men are stereotyped as alligning more with thinking traits. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a female T in a country where women are supposed to naturally be more feeling oriented. Do you think that it is more difficult to be a male F or a female T?

    Are male Fs less expressive with their feelings than their female counterparts because of societal expectations? Are female Ts more likely to act more nurturing and emotional than male Ts because that is what is expected of them?
    Your post is full to the brim with rhetorical questions...surely you must realise that it is more difficult to be a Feeler than a Thinker if you are a man, than the inverse!

    I will not speak for women, but as a man I am under a lot of pressure not to be emotionally open. I live in a society where men are expected to be strong, stoic, silent...and simple. This may seem like an aside but in my areas there is a deep mistrust of art, in fact culture generally as a symptom of "elites" from the north. While people do have some legitimate concerns (read: avant-garde nonsense), the hostility towards abstract thinking is a real shame.

    Men who show any signs of emotion are seen as weak, or even worse, gay. This has really stopped me from showing my true self to my family. I am not gay - in fact I'm as far from gay as you could be, I love women - but I'm not a stereotypical man and feel unsatisfied by the society I live in. It is very hard to find a woman I'm attracted while feeling happy about it. However, that is me.

    Something that makes me suspicious of (the majority of) the typology crowd's intentions is their reluctance to admit that males and females are not cognitively interchangeable. There are structural differences between the brains of a man and a woman. There are also sound evolutionary reasons for a divergence in male and female mating strategies. Looking at MBTI alone (or MBTI in combination with environment aka "social conditioning") as a way to explain gender differences is flat out wrong.

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