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  1. #101
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hel View Post
    What you view as accuracy isn't accurate. We all know that no one knews how mental illness works biologically, nor do we ever know if meds are going to work. Because we just don't know when it comes to mental illness. There's a ton of mystery. And I'm not being nice, I'm saying that the post that was made in reply to me was a post I agree with and find useful.

    Also, I expect a lot more from the mental health profession than it's ever given. Improve first and then talk to me about my expectations.
    Nobody knows exactly what causes some mental illnesses. We do, however, have decades of research that indicate risk factors, effective medications, etc. So what I hear you saying is either you expect something that is not humanly possible at this point, or that your worldview in incompatible with the facts.
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  2. #102
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    There was a moment of hope with R.D.Laing in Kingsley Hall in London, Kingsley Hall: RD Laing's experiment in anti-psychiatry | Books | The Guardian.

    But hope was lost with the de-institutionalisation of the mental asylums and the casting of the inmates out onto the street as a cost cutting measure.

    So today we see those suffering from a mental illness out begging on the streets, and self medicating.

  3. #103
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain curmudgeon View Post
    Nobody knows exactly what causes some mental illnesses. We do, however, have decades of research that indicate risk factors, effective medications, etc. So what I hear you saying is either you expect something that is not humanly possible at this point, or that your worldview in incompatible with the facts.
    Your decades of research had me misdiagnosed multiple times, put on medication I shouldn't have been given, told that my actual physical illnesses were psychological, and had me assualted by staff in a psych ward. I realize thought that hoping that wouldn't happen means my worldview is incompatible with facts.

  4. #104
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    The above is my experience with mental illness. It's not off topic.

  5. #105
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain curmudgeon View Post
    Nobody knows exactly what causes some mental illnesses. We do, however, have decades of research that indicate risk factors, effective medications, etc. So what I hear you saying is either you expect something that is not humanly possible at this point, or that your worldview in incompatible with the facts.
    We have milennia of research on spiritual emergencies.

    I'm sure a few decades of lab coat pharma coax research warrants a dismissal of all of that.
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  6. #106
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    We have milennia of research on spiritual emergencies.
    Utilizing the scientific method and that is equal to or better than medical/ psych research? Please link!
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

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    hel: fairies?
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  7. #107
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hel View Post
    Your decades of research had me misdiagnosed multiple times, put on medication I shouldn't have been given, told that my actual physical illnesses were psychological, and had me assualted by staff in a psych ward. I realize thought that hoping that wouldn't happen means my worldview is incompatible with facts.
    You might not like this but... you're taking this too personally. Look, I know this matters a lot to you, and it's deeply personal due to all the trauma you went through. I've read about your experiences and your blog. It's really horrible what you went through and it's emphatically not right that what happened happened.

    Regardless, your individual experiences doesn't invalidate the field. What it does do is point out flaws in the system and field that need to be fixed. This will take time, and the science is still evolving and growing. Still, your experiences are not the norm. If they were the field would not be as effective as it is, nor well regarded by the medical community and those outside of it as well. I have had good experiences within psychology and psychiatry overall, and the latter has helped me significantly as of recent.

    You're right to be critical, but you can become excessively critical, which is why you're getting pushback from people right now. They're not trying invalidate your world view, and nor am I.

    Also fwiw @captain curmudgeon is a lisenced social worker so he does have experiences within this.
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  8. #108
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain curmudgeon View Post
    Utilizing the scientific method and that is equal to or better than medical/ psych research? Please link!
    "Scientific method", "psych"... I'm trying to link them, but it's kinda tricky.

    Science is one particular methodology. If you think new ways outweigh old ways, then that's your thing, but to me the search for truth outweighs the motives of the searchers.

    The rape of science through its dogmatisation is tragic at the least.
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  9. #109
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    You might not like this but... you're taking this too personally. Look, I know this matters a lot to you, and it's deeply personal due to all the trauma you went through. I've read about your experiences and your blog. It's really horrible what you went through and it's emphatically not right that what happened happened.

    Regardless, your individual experiences doesn't invalidate the field. What it does do is point out flaws in the system and field that need to be fixed. This will take time, and the science is still evolving and growing. Still, your experiences are not the norm. If they were the field would not be as effective as it is, nor well regarded by the medical community and those outside of it as well. I have had good experiences within psychology and psychiatry overall, and the latter has helped me significantly as of recent.

    You're right to be critical, but you can become excessively critical, which is why you're getting pushback from people right now. They're not trying invalidate your world view, and nor am I.

    Also fwiw @captain curmudgeon is a lisenced social worker so he does have experiences within this.
    Your individual experience doesn't validate the field. How do you know I'm not in the majority? You're wrong to think that because the field is well regarded by the medical community, lots of other people don't experience what I do. It's the medical community that's responsible in the first place. Of course they view their own practices positively.

    Also, it's not like there is research or statistics on the amount of people harmed. So how could you possibly know what is and isn't the majority. It's not talked about and when it is, it receives pushback. So there will never be an accurate view of this until it can be fully acknowledged.

    And the flaws I experienced weren't all due to science. They were human flaws. Flaws of how we treat people we diagnose. And that type of treatment being justified is still a prevailing attitude.

  10. #110
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    I hate having arguments like this because it feels so incredibly invalidating and it reaffirms that no one gives a shit because I'm a "minority." If this were an issue with any other minority the same people who are arguing with me would be jumping in to help me. Too bad I'm not trans or a POC.

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