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  1. #11
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Ok so here's the thing that confuses the fuck out of me, maybe i'm just an asshole because of it and that's ok, because it just is. Any ways more and more i've been seeing people claim non-binary which is cool whateves, but the thing that i don't get is they want a special box on forms. I've never really thought of myself as male or female but because my reproductive organs are female i just put that down or if i asked if i'm boy or girl i say girl. Because here the thing i don't think it defines me and therefore no need to worry about it. so my question is why? do they care so much? I'm not talking about trans which would be different from non-binary, and i can understand the need because if you are transitioning from man to woman and going to a doctor or something, somethings are gonna be off they just are. But with non-binary until you can ken doll your genitals there's not i use for it and just seems whiney. I mean also the special treatment, like no one's gonna know unless you tell them i've totally lost my train of thought so there was more
    Well, trans is non-binary, or rather, non-binary is a part of the transgender umbrella which is not the same as being transsexual, which is also a part of the transgender umbrella. To be honest, I feel like your position comes from a position from privilege which is that you feel that you do not care about your genitals but in a sense, you do care insofar that you do not see anything wrong with the way your makeup and identity work together. I see this argument from a lot of cispeople, because they do not think they place any real emphasis on their genitals because they never had to do that because it already clicks so thus, it becomes a non-issue. I think, without wanting to sound presumptuous though it will be anyway, that it's a bit of an ignorant and arrogant position to take.

    A non-binary person is a person who feels their gender identity does not match the binary system of man-woman. It can be a person who feels that their idea of masculinity does not fit the status quo idea of what it means to be masculine e.g. a femme man or conversely, a person whose notions of femininity does not fit the status quo notion of femininity e.g. butch woman. It can also be a person who feels that they have more than one gender identity that they seamlessly switch between, or that they do not feel they belong to neither man nor woman as gender categories. Non-binary is a very broad category to include everything not binary.

    Non-binary isn't about the physical bits, but it's about how one feels one's body and mode of self-expression may not match the pre-conceived stereotypes of how to be. Some of these people may transition just like a transsexual and have surgery and so on, but retain to express their identity in a way that goes against the gender binary matrix. There are for example plenty of femme FTMs on Youtube, and they would all fall under the category of non-binary.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    Well, trans is non-binary, or rather, non-binary is a part of the transgender umbrella which is not the same as being transsexual, which is also a part of the transgender umbrella. To be honest, I feel like your position comes from a position from privilege which is that you feel that you do not care about your genitals but in a sense, you do care insofar that you do not see anything wrong with the way your makeup and identity work together. I see this argument from a lot of cispeople, because they do not think they place any real emphasis on their genitals because they never had to do that because it already clicks so thus, it becomes a non-issue. I think, without wanting to sound presumptuous though it will be anyway, that it's a bit of an ignorant and arrogant position to take.

    A non-binary person is a person who feels their gender identity does not match the binary system of man-woman. It can be a person who feels that their idea of masculinity does not fit the status quo idea of what it means to be masculine e.g. a femme man or conversely, a person whose notions of femininity does not fit the status quo notion of femininity e.g. butch woman. It can also be a person who feels that they have more than one gender identity that they seamlessly switch between, or that they do not feel they belong to neither man nor woman as gender categories. Non-binary is a very broad category to include everything not binary.

    Non-binary isn't about the physical bits, but it's about how one feels one's body and mode of self-expression may not match the pre-conceived stereotypes of how to be. Some of these people may transition just like a transsexual and have surgery and so on, but retain to express their identity in a way that goes against the gender binary matrix. There are for example plenty of femme FTMs on Youtube, and they would all fall under the category of non-binary.
    no one in this thread is understanding what i'm saying. at all. I give up you all turn it into a clusterfuck yourself.

    and trans is binary trans but definition is a male who identifies as female still binary. still two gender system.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #13
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    no one in this thread is understanding what i'm saying. at all. I give up you all turn it into a clusterfuck yourself
    lol, and that is my fault how? I read your OP, I responded based on how I understood it. You essentially seem to be wound up because non-binary people actually dare to claim social space and public visibility but you think they have no right to do that. I explained what non-binary is and how it works, and I then went to address, in very mild and nice terms, that I think you are a transphobic privileged cishet bigot for not being a little accepting and understanding that non-binary people have as much right to exist and can be discriminated just like the other person, and are way more likely to be discriminated than transsexuals because they, compared to transsexuals, do not choose to fit into the gender binary matrix. That is not making a scene, but it's claiming to rights they never had. Your argument is similar to what happened when Rosa Parks refused to sit at her "proper" place in the bus and she was making a scene because how dare she claim to social space outside of her rights within the public sphere. I bet people thought she was trying to be a special snowflake too.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woaden View Post
    I think it's more to do with the meaning of the word "gender" as opposed to "sex" in the context you mentioned.
    ugh I know this, my point is it doesn't fucking matter unless your going to a doctor and they need to know for physical shit. otherwise it shouldn't matter and society is never gonna stop insisting that you id as a gender so just do it, its the 50 gender pronouns for facebook. tbt i don't give a fuck what you are because i won't treat you differently unless your an asshole then i'll treat you like on assshole and try to shove shit through you (not physically I think that's rape or assault depending on which hole you use) because that's what assholes are for. I
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #15
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    lol, and that is my fault how? I read your OP, I responded based on how I understood it. You essentially seem to be wound up because non-binary people actually dare to claim social space and public visibility but you think they have no right to do that. I explained what non-binary is and how it works, and I then went to address, in very mild and nice terms, that I think you are a transphobic privileged cishet bigot for not being a little accepting and understanding that non-binary people have as much right to exist and can be discriminated just like the other person, and are way more likely to be discriminated than transsexuals because they, compared to transsexuals, do not choose to fit into the gender binary matrix. That is not making a scene, but it's claiming to rights they never had. Your argument is similar to what happened when Rosa Parks refused to sit at her "proper" place in the bus and she was making a scene because how dare she claim to social space outside of her rights within the public sphere. I bet people thought she was trying to be a special snowflake too.
    because i explicitly said i don't id with either but i don't insist of some bullshit fucking term and claim victimhood when its not even though yeah people try to get me to wear make up and get me to have relationships (neither of which i'm interested in, but it really isn't the issue people make it out to be)
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #16
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    ugh I know this, my point is it doesn't fucking matter unless your going to a doctor and they need to know for physical shit. otherwise it shouldn't matter and society is never gonna stop insisting that you id as a gender so just do it, its the 50 gender pronouns for facebook. tbt i don't give a fuck what you are because i won't treat you differently unless your an asshole then i'll treat you like on assshole and try to shove shit through you (not physically I think that's rape or assault depending on which hole you use) because that's what assholes are for. I
    But to these people, it does matter because it's their way of relating and existing to this world. Some people may recognize that, some people don't. Those who do may choose to treat them equally or take their gender into consideration; those who don't may ridicule them for not fitting into the norm.

    So while you may not care about it, I'd guess that they're informing you so that you can be aware of it. Whether they want special treatment is entirely up to the individual.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    because i explicitly said i don't id with either but i don't insist of some bullshit fucking term and claim victimhood when its not even though yeah people try to get me to wear make up and get me to have relationships (neither of which i'm interested in, but it really isn't the issue people make it out to be)
    Yeah, blame the victim for actually daring to express that they think they are a victim. Nice logic. Of course you don't get how they are victims because you are not they, and it's made evidently clear you do not choose to express or possess the capacity to try to understand their position. Then you also forsake any right to be approached with respect whenever you make claims about the issue.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #18
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woaden View Post
    But to these people, it does matter because it's their way of relating and existing to this world. Some people may recognize that, some people don't. Those who do may choose to treat them equally or take their gender into consideration; those who don't may ridicule them for not fitting into the norm.

    So while you may not care about it, I'd guess that they're informing you so that you can be aware of it. Whether they want special treatment is entirely up to the individual.
    why? i don't think it does, it doesn't it just doesn't. wear a fucking bear suit if it makes you happy i don't give a shit, and yes i will beat up anyone who gives you shit. the end problem solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
    Yeah, blame the victim for actually daring to express that they think they are a victim. Nice logic. Of course you don't get how they are victims because you are not they, and it's made evidently clear you do not choose to express or possess the capacity to try to understand their position. Then you also forsake any right to be approached with respect whenever you make claims about the issue.
    I'm not blaming the victim, because they aren't a fucking victim and if they are they walked into the lion den.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #19
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    I think if everyone respected each other's differences, there wouldn't be a need to have politics like this.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woaden View Post
    I think if everyone respected each other's differences, there wouldn't be a need to have politics like this.

    or the need to invent 5607 new terms for gender maybe you're a human maybe you're not sleep with who you're attracted to (as long as it's consensual) or if you're not don't....

    and I was trying to get an understanding because quite frankly a lot of it i see online seems like bs to me and it seems like you're inviting abuse a lot of times, and that's not blaming the victim. because if you go into a homophobic frat and say you're gay then complain about being treated misfairly. yeah that suks, but you knew the nature of the beast. now if you go in to that don't say your gay or anything and still get beaten up then you are the victim.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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