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Thread: non-binary gender (not trans)

  1. #111
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    5w6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I believe that terms, for better or worse, create alternate realities. The point of advocating two billion shades is to make terms impractical so that limitations and expectations are kept at bay.
    Terms are what we make of them. If something is real, we need a name for it. The fact that its reality is misrepresented, or even misused, doesn't make it suddenly unreal. One might argue that masculine and feminine, or even male and female, are not in fact complementary dichotomies, just as one might argue there is no black and white, just shades of gray. As abstract and occasionally useful ideals, however, both dichotomies do in fact exist.
    Hope is the denial of reality. It is the carrot dangled before the draft horse to keep him plodding along in a vain attempt to reach it. We should remove the carrot and walk forward with our eyes open. -- Raistlin Majere
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  2. #112
    Mojibake Array sprinkles's Avatar
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    Jul 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I believe that terms, for better or worse, create alternate realities. The point of advocating two billion shades is to make terms impractical so that limitations and expectations are kept at bay.
    Muddying the waters usually does more harm than good. And this is coming from someone who likes and practices deconstruction.

    It's like killing the host to get rid of a parasite. These two billion shades are going to stick around for better or worse and if ever there comes a time you want to be specific in spite of imperfect terms, you won't be able to and it'll be your own fault.

    Terms aren't perfect. They only need to be adequate.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Array BluRoses's Avatar
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    Oct 2014
    ENFj Ni


    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    ugh I know this, my point is it doesn't fucking matter unless your going to a doctor and they need to know for physical shit. otherwise it shouldn't matter and society is never gonna stop insisting that you id as a gender so just do it, its the 50 gender pronouns for facebook. tbt i don't give a fuck what you are because i won't treat you differently unless your an asshole then i'll treat you like on assshole and try to shove shit through you (not physically I think that's rape or assault depending on which hole you use) because that's what assholes are for. I

    I see what you are saying. First of all, people on facebook are nuts, so please don't base any opinions of real people on those interactions. Second, I understand that to you it doesn't really matter what gender people think you are, or whatever. The thing is, other people REALLY CARE. They REALLY, REALLY CARE. And that is just a fact. You can't really argue with how they view themselves and how they think the world should be. Well, you can argue, but they are not going to change who they are. So....I would recommend that you just accept that some people really care about this issue and you don't. Kinda like how I have to accept some people REALLY CARE about what religion they and other people are, and I couldn't give a *uck! We just agree to disagree.
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  4. #114
    Diabolical Array Kasper's Avatar
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    May 2008
    9w8 so/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I have always wondered how much of the gender dysphoria transgender people experience is a result of feeling different from, in contrast to converse to, other members of their sex. From an epistemological point of view, nobody born with a penis knows how it feels to be a girl. He is likely to know how it feels to be in the wrong body, but is wrongness an intrinsic emotion or a discrepancy between what is and what, by society, parents, friends, and ultimately oneself, is supposed to be? In my experience, the only time children have a problem with their gender is when someone else draws attention to their being different from an irrelevant majority.
    Ime there are two equally harsh elements; extreme discomfort with one's physical body which I would refer to as the dysphoria, and the discomfort with social gender expectations, I don't consider that dysphoria however the pain it causes can be just as harmful. Removal of expectations does not negate the other, and we don't live in a non-gendered space that would allow someone to avoid the former based on lack of recognition.

    Part of the problem with understanding the difference is most people equate genitalia to gender identity, I doubt you were told as a child you had a penis therefore you were a boy and your brain accepted that notion, it simply aligned with your identity.

    In my head I have always viewed myself as male, there was never a time when that was a questionable thing, I simply didn't know others did not all think the same way. I never looked at girls and said "I don't feel like them" I looked at them without knowledge they did not see themselves as male in their head, I really did not get girls! It may sound silly but I lived most of my life with no voice to question my subjective experience of self compared with others, it wasn't a topic discussed or a subject I was exposed to, I did not really get that I was different beyond struggling to play the role as dictated by social expectations as I grew older, and due to the wide circle of tomboys around me even that wasn't seen by others as an issue. I knew at a young age that my body was 'wrong' and would get quite distraught about it, that wasn't about social expectations, they simply exacerbated things. It's like my brain had a map for how my body should look, and only I was privy to it, it was an internal thing, not about comparing.

    Re the question of non-binary gender...

    That point of my own subjective view of life is one that makes topics of trans issues feisty at times; most seem to push their subjective experience onto the topic and say "this is how I see it, why can't you just see it like that". It's automatic to see one's own perspective as objective, but it's not and can therefore be very dismissive of other experiences, that is most damaging if the view being dismissed is a minority.

    My experience shades my view naturally, I don't see gender as a binary thing and believe it's incorrect for there to be only two options when nature clearly shows us diversity, one of the biggest issues I see with persisting with that binary is the forced surgeries on children with intersexed conditions to fit them into a binary, changing government paperwork to include an optional non-binary option exposes more people to the concept that gender isn't binary or something that has to be "fixed", I don't see how that's a bad thing unless that option is forced on people. I also think it's stupid that your drivers licenses have a gender marker on them, but that's another topic =D I don't know what it's like to be non-binary, however I do know that for those who are, it is valued when it is recognised and accepted, if you're able to see that gender isn't binary then I see no reason not to recognise those who are non-binary. If you are not able to see gender as anything but binary, then that is the question you need to be pondering.
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  5. #115
    Senior Member Array Lark's Avatar
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    Jun 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Ok so here's the thing that confuses the fuck out of me, maybe i'm just an asshole because of it and that's ok, because it just is. Any ways more and more i've been seeing people claim non-binary which is cool whateves, but the thing that i don't get is they want a special box on forms. I've never really thought of myself as male or female but because my reproductive organs are female i just put that down or if i asked if i'm boy or girl i say girl. Because here the thing i don't think it defines me and therefore no need to worry about it. so my question is why? do they care so much? I'm not talking about trans which would be different from non-binary, and i can understand the need because if you are transitioning from man to woman and going to a doctor or something, somethings are gonna be off they just are. But with non-binary until you can ken doll your genitals there's not i use for it and just seems whiney. I mean also the special treatment, like no one's gonna know unless you tell them i've totally lost my train of thought so there was more
    To be honest I think that's just part of the trend, maybe consumerism's at fault, maybe its the addiction to novelty, maybe its atheism/finitude of existence/death anxiety, in any case choice is good, anything which would appear to limit choice is taboo, anything which appears to have been a choice even isnt good either.

    So I see all this pomo sexuality etc. etc. as all part of that.

    Although it'd be easier to dismiss me as a bigot and not bother to think about things in any sort of depth.

    Bet everyone goes with the later rather than the former.

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