User Tag List

First 9101112 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 115

  1. #101
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, the OP here is rather vague. The idea of which check boxes regarding gender should appear on forms was mentioned. Then there was the statement, "I mean also the special treatment, like no one's gonna know unless you tell them i've totally lost my train of thought so there was more". I have been mentioning this in the context of other groups because we have seen these issues before. We have now, for instance, much more variation in the race and ethnicity boxes than we ever used to, presumably because people in the "none of the above" category asked for it. More and more we have people who wish to check multiple boxes. We have more boxes for religion, for marital status, for employment status, and other demographic properties. Seems in the case of gender, we can learn from these experiences. At the same time, the whole system begs the question: when, if at all, should we even be asking these questions? What is the purpose of asking? Nosiness? Government control? Desire to understand the demographic makeup of various locales, careers, economic groups, etc?


    This was my point: that there is a commonality in the experience of everyone who is ostracised, judged, or persecuted for being different. Some of those so affected will come to see everyone as potentially hostile, every mistake as intentional; many will not. Yes, it looks like the world is out to get transpeople; just as it was out to get blacks, women, Jews, gays, Armenians, and the disabled at one point or another, and in many places, perhaps still is. On the Everyday Sexism thread awhile back, there was discussion of the many small ways women are belittled or marginalized each day, as well as the notion that we should speak up in these cases rather than just let them roll of our backs in the interests of getting along. This is the "no one's going to know unless you tell them" part. Many well-intentioned men don't realize the effects of the small things they say and do. And yes, I have seen plenty of women complain about this to other women rather than speak up to the men actually doing it. I suspect the same applies to comments and actions involving other human distinctions, including those of gender identity.


    Unless I suddenly wake up some morning with gender identity issues, the most I will ever be able to do on that specific topic is observe. You can dismiss all the experiences I do have as irrelevant, or accept that there is some commonality of experience among every form of bullying, hostility, or discrimination based on our individual characteristics, whatever they may be. While the first approach might feel satisfying in the moment, it is not realistic, or constructive in the long run.
    what is there for marriage besides, single, married, divorced, my spouse is dead? I am for equal rights, because reasons, special treatment ime makes you stick out more and makes you wear a sign like OMG LOOK AT HOW DIFFERENT I AM!!!! not worth it. equal rights means equal. it comes down to treating everyone like a human or how they've Individually earned to be treated.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #102
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what is there for marriage besides, single, married, divorced, my spouse is dead? I am for equal rights, because reasons, special treatment ime makes you stick out more and makes you wear a sign like OMG LOOK AT HOW DIFFERENT I AM!!!! not worth it. equal rights means equal. it comes down to treating everyone like a human or how they've Individually earned to be treated.
    I have seen things like: separated, domestic partner, and in a committed relationship.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #103
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have seen things like: separated, domestic partner, and in a committed relationship.
    why do they want the government to know so much? less it knows the better imo.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
    Likes Cygnus liked this post

  4. #104
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    why do they want the government to know so much? less it knows the better imo.
    Some of these things relate to public benefits, which depend on how many people live in your household, and sometimes by law, the exact nature of their relationships.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #105
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Some of these things relate to public benefits, which depend on how many people live in your household, and sometimes by law, the exact nature of their relationships.
    why does the government need to know the exact nature of the relationships in your household? as long as its not a slave master relation which no one would report since that's illegal there's no point.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #106
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    why does the government need to know the exact nature of the relationships in your household? as long as its not a slave master relation which no one would report since that's illegal there's no point.
    Because by law, some benefits may be extended to include legal spouses and children, while others can't. This is one reason gay folks have been so keen on legal marriage benefits, so their relationship to a spouse and children is legally recognized. In some cases, I think you can count a parent as a dependent if they actually do depend on you and live with you, etc. Then there are official foster children vs. your daughter's friend whom you might unofficially take in, etc. Just how all the rules are written about these things.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes BluRoses liked this post

  7. #107
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Because by law, some benefits may be extended to include legal spouses and children, while others can't. This is one reason gay folks have been so keen on legal marriage benefits, so their relationship to a spouse and children is legally recognized. In some cases, I think you can count a parent as a dependent if they actually do depend on you and live with you, etc. Then there are official foster children vs. your daughter's friend whom you might unofficially take in, etc. Just how all the rules are written about these things.
    yeah i get listing offspring and marriage. but i'm talking like room mates or that other stuff you mentioned where there is no benefit
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #108
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    This isn't going to happen. In an ideal world I can see it, but here gender isn't going anywhere.
    Unfortunately, I do agree. People are going to remain primitive and stupid. Gender, however, is not going to solve any problems either.

  9. #109
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Unfortunately, I do agree. People are going to remain primitive and stupid. Gender, however, is not going to solve any problems either.
    I actually don't mind gender. There is use and even beauty in it as an abstract concept, or archetype reflecting complementary duality. It also parallels the biology of reproduction, which while not determining the rest of life as some think/wish it does, is nonetheless an important element of it. The problem comes when we expect actual humans to fit the metaphor in any specific way, whether that being expressing either gender in a traditional way, or having one's gender expression match one's physical body, or even fitting within the gender binary at all. IME, in archetypal terms we all are some combination of masculine and feminine, understanding that there will be some variation in those definitions themselves. Someone who is 100% masculine or feminine by any definition seems unnatural to the point of impossibility.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes BluRoses liked this post

  10. #110
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I actually don't mind gender. There is use and even beauty in it as an abstract concept, or archetype reflecting complementary duality. It also parallels the biology of reproduction, which while not determining the rest of life as some think/wish it does, is nonetheless an important element of it. The problem comes when we expect actual humans to fit the metaphor in any specific way, whether that being expressing either gender in a traditional way, or having one's gender expression match one's physical body, or even fitting within the gender binary at all. IME, in archetypal terms we all are some combination of masculine and feminine, understanding that there will be some variation in those definitions themselves. Someone who is 100% masculine or feminine by any definition seems unnatural to the point of impossibility.
    I believe that terms, for better or worse, create alternate realities. The point of advocating two billion shades is to make terms impractical so that limitations and expectations are kept at bay.

Similar Threads

  1. “IST”: Gender Valued not Neutral
    By Cloudpatrol in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 10-16-2016, 01:09 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2014, 08:49 AM
  3. I am Not, an INTP
    By Anonymous in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 11:42 PM
  4. Still not in Madridgal's Forest
    By thirtyfour in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-28-2007, 09:57 AM
  5. Not again...
    By Martoon in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-23-2007, 07:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO