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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Hatred of the True Self

    The false self is an effective form of social control.

    We long for a false self so that we can be effective in society such as having a job, a boyfriend or girlfriend, and independence.

    So when we don't have a job, a partner, and we are dependent financially and emotionally on our parents, we naturally look for a false self.

    Society doesn't value the true self, so nurturing our true self will not make us acceptable in society, and we won't belong, we will be outcast.

    And there being such a strong demand for a false self, there is naturally a strong supply. And mbti supplies ready made false selves for everyone.

    Mbti comes like an epiphany, like rain after a long drought, we are grateful that we can now interact with other false selves.

    And so we enter a conspiracy of false selves, all the more potent, because it seems natural and unplanned. How can it be a conspiracy?

    But even such a happy and joyful conspiracy has its dark side and that is the hatred of the true self.
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  2. #2
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    People are the total of what they're made of, where they've been, what they remember, how they see themselves, others and what they want to be and much more. Selfness is an identification with something as part of our existence, it can't be true or false unless somebody lays an agenda on it, implies some sort of structure with a purpose. Imagine a person having a purpose, that's a trip.

    Do you have an agenda, Mole?

  3. #3
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    People are the total of what they're made of, where they've been, what they remember, how they see themselves, others and what they want to be and much more. Selfness is an identification with something as part of our existence, it can't be true or false unless somebody lays an agenda on it, implies some sort of structure with a purpose. Imagine a person having a purpose, that's a trip.

    Do you have an agenda, Mole?
    Of course I am partisan.

    I love the true self because it is alive, and I hate the false self because it is phoney and a dead thing.

    I love the true self because it is independent, and I hate the false self because it is dependent on how it is seen.

    I love the true self because it dances, and I hate the false self because it is pedestrian.

    I love the true self because it is courageous, and I hate the false self because it is cowardly.

    I love the true self because it is imaginative, and I hate the false self because conformist.

    The false self loves social control while the true self loves liberation.

  4. #4
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Of course I am partisan.

    I love the true self because it is alive, and I hate the false self because it is phoney and a dead thing.

    I love the true self because it is independent, and I hate the false self because it is dependent on how it is seen.

    I love the true self because it dances, and I hate the false self because it is pedestrian.

    I love the true self because it is courageous, and I hate the false self because it is cowardly.

    I love the true self because it is imaginative, and I hate the false self because conformist.

    The false self loves social control while the true self loves liberation.
    Ah, well, I've always felt I was brave enough to see that I am an imaginative conformist, courageous coward, a pedestrian dancer, an independent dependent and a walking dead man. That's my all-self, and I love it.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    I love my true self.

    Life would be immeasurably more chaotic, though, if our raw energies refused to blend and cooperate.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    All selves are false.

    The true self is a distortion bred from irrational idealism.

    The false selves are merely facades that facilitate interaction.

    The creation of the "true" self is a reaction to the dissonance created by the false ones, whose behaviors unsettle us, allowing us the liberty to indulge the illusion that our false selves are simply acts we put on and not truths, that the false selves are somehow subordinate in authenticity to the true self.

    Rather, the true self is no more true than the false selves are. Yet we still defend ourselves against the evidence that points to the contrary, simply because we irrationally desire to be right, and not wrong. We distort the world around us, denouncing our "false" selves as untrue of ourselves because they seem wrong and conflict with our own self-image, our "true", ideal self, and we distort information and evidence to serve our own outlandish worldviews and beliefs, so that we can't be wrong.

    We must be right, or else we are wrong, and we must not be wrong, so we shall delude ourselves that we are right. Perhaps eventually we will realize that all of our selves are reflective of a "true" self, and that debate isn't about who's right, but about what's right. Maybe then we will be able to overcome our irrationality.
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  7. #7
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Ah, well, I've always felt I was brave enough to see that I am an imaginative conformist, courageous coward, a pedestrian dancer, an independent dependent and a walking dead man. That's my all-self, and I love it.
    We perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see.

    And being mortal, contingent human beings and not Gods, we are only able to see one side of a distinction at one time.

    So the distinction between the false self and the true self enables us to perceive, to see.

    And interestingly, once we can see though one side of distinction, we are able to move between the distinctions, but only one at a time.

    Only a God can inhabit both sides of a distinction at the same time.

    And here is the calculus of distinctions http://morephilosophystuff.pbworks.c...79-Edition.pdf

  8. #8
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see.

    And being mortal, contingent human beings and not Gods, we are only able to see one side of a distinction at one time.

    So the distinction between the false self and the true self enables us to perceive, to see.

    And interestingly, once we can see though one side of distinction, we are able to move between the distinctions, but only one at a time.

    Only a God can inhabit both sides of a distinction at the same time.

    And here is the calculus of distinctions http://morephilosophystuff.pbworks.c...79-Edition.pdf
    Well, then, it's just a wonder that I have memory then. It's a strange trick I employ where I can summon seeing one distinction at one time and another at an altogether different time. Then I reconcile with mathematics. Magic.

    I'm relieved that this was simple to explain as the alternative was to conclude that I am in fact The God. This realization would prompt pondering that would derail some outings I had planned this week.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    <---- (pretend the arrow is level with my username)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    All selves are false.

    The true self is a distortion bred from irrational idealism.

    The false selves are merely facades that facilitate interaction.

    The creation of the "true" self is a reaction to the dissonance created by the false ones, whose behaviors unsettle us, allowing us the liberty to indulge the illusion that our false selves are simply acts we put on and not truths, that the false selves are somehow subordinate in authenticity to the true self.

    Rather, the true self is no more true than the false selves are. Yet we still defend ourselves against the evidence that points to the contrary, simply because we irrationally desire to be right, and not wrong. We distort the world around us, denouncing our "false" selves as untrue of ourselves because they seem wrong and conflict with our own self-image, our "true", ideal self, and we distort information and evidence to serve our own outlandish worldviews and beliefs, so that we can't be wrong.

    We must be right, or else we are wrong, and we must not be wrong, so we shall delude ourselves that we are right. Perhaps eventually we will realize that all of our selves are reflective of a "true" self, and that debate isn't about who's right, but about what's right. Maybe then we will be able to overcome our irrationality.

  10. #10
    Member Dopa's Avatar
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    I think mole is talking about living from within vs. living from how others view you, a sort of narcissism. Some people are only concerned with how they will look to other people. They have forgotten that they have their own desires beneath the 3rd-person self-consciousness of how they appear to society. To live from within is to drop out of society in a sense... you might still be in it literally, but you no longer care about how it judges you a success or a failure, etc. It's a much quieter, simpler life. For most people however, it would require a psychological death to access... to most, letting go of people's approval is so terrifying they don't even conceive of it.
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