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  1. #11
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    "I shall never forget that night of December," writes Jouffroy, "in which the veil that concealed from me my own incredulity was torn. I hear again my steps in that narrow naked chamber where long after the hour of sleep had come I had the habit of walking up and down. I see again that moon, half-veiled by clouds, which now and again illuminated the frigid window-panes. The hours of the night flowed on and I did not note their passage. Anxiously I followed my thoughts, as from layer to layer they descended towards the foundation of my consciousness, and, scattering one by one all the illusions which until then had screened its windings from my view, made them every moment more clearly visible.

    Vainly I clung to these last beliefs as a shipwrecked sailor clings to the fragments of his vessel; vainly, frightened at the unknown void in which I was about to float, I turned with them towards my childhood, my family, my country, all that was dear and sacred to me: the inflexible current of my thought was too strong, -- parents, family, memory, beliefs, it forced me to let go of everything. The investigation went on more obstinate and more severe as it drew near its term, and did not stop until the end was reached. I knew then that in the depth of my mind nothing was left that stood erect.

    This moment was a frightful one; and when towards morning I threw myself exhausted on my bed, I seemed to feel my earlier life, so smiling and so full, go out like a fire, and before me another life opened, sombre and unpeopled, where in future I must live alone, alone with my fatal thought which had exiled me thither, and which I was tempted to curse. The days which followed this discovery were the saddest of my life."
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  2. #12
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I'd stop thinking about little children first before lecturing others on the self.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
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  3. #13
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopa View Post
    I think mole is talking about living from within vs. living from how others view you, a sort of narcissism. Some people are only concerned with how they will look to other people. They have forgotten that they have their own desires beneath the 3rd-person self-consciousness of how they appear to society. To live from within is to drop out of society in a sense... you might still be in it literally, but you no longer care about how it judges you a success or a failure, etc. It's a much quieter, simpler life. For most people however, it would require a psychological death to access... to most, letting go of people's approval is so terrifying they don't even conceive of it.
    This is a thoughtful response. And I am well aware of the distinction between my inner life and my outer life, but what I have slowly learnt to do is to share my inner life in the outer world.

    I find this to be enlivening, brings me into contact with those around me, and interestingly it is often humorous.

    So for the introvert there is no need to drop out of society, but what is important is to learn to progressively relax into more and more social situations. I great help to me was the book Relief Without Drugs by Ainslie Mears. It is not about legal or illegal drugs but teaches a technique of physical and mental relaxation into more and more social situations.

    Introverts have a lot to offer society but to do this it is very important to learn progressive relaxation.
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  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evee View Post
    "I shall never forget that night of December," writes Jouffroy, "in which the veil that concealed from me my own incredulity was torn. I hear again my steps in that narrow naked chamber where long after the hour of sleep had come I had the habit of walking up and down. I see again that moon, half-veiled by clouds, which now and again illuminated the frigid window-panes. The hours of the night flowed on and I did not note their passage. Anxiously I followed my thoughts, as from layer to layer they descended towards the foundation of my consciousness, and, scattering one by one all the illusions which until then had screened its windings from my view, made them every moment more clearly visible.

    Vainly I clung to these last beliefs as a shipwrecked sailor clings to the fragments of his vessel; vainly, frightened at the unknown void in which I was about to float, I turned with them towards my childhood, my family, my country, all that was dear and sacred to me: the inflexible current of my thought was too strong, -- parents, family, memory, beliefs, it forced me to let go of everything. The investigation went on more obstinate and more severe as it drew near its term, and did not stop until the end was reached. I knew then that in the depth of my mind nothing was left that stood erect.

    This moment was a frightful one; and when towards morning I threw myself exhausted on my bed, I seemed to feel my earlier life, so smiling and so full, go out like a fire, and before me another life opened, sombre and unpeopled, where in future I must live alone, alone with my fatal thought which had exiled me thither, and which I was tempted to curse. The days which followed this discovery were the saddest of my life."
    I like to imagine you Evee walking through the woods contemplating your thoughts. And how I would like you to share your contemplation with us. Perhaps you could take a small voice recorder with you and speak your contemplation as it occurs.

    The important step is the first step but you would be following in the footsteps of another contemplative, Thomas Merton, who shared his contemplation with us and we loved him for it.

  5. #15
    Junior Member JjJot's Avatar
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    This thread makes me think of a great quote I heard on TV the other night. Authentic quote, not from a script:

    "If you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing no one."

    This did me in. It's a pretty simple way of realizing that pleasing people isn't always the best route.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by JjJot View Post
    This thread makes me think of a great quote I heard on TV the other night. Authentic quote, not from a script:

    "If you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing no one."

    This did me in. It's a pretty simple way of realizing that pleasing people isn't always the best route.
    There's a lot of truth in that. You can work yourself to death trying to please someone that will never be happy or care about you. I can say from my experience on a Christian forum (and in life in general), no matter what I did to please some people or how perfect I was, there were those that especially didn't like me for that very reason. Some won't look beyond superficial things to find a common ground; they just want you beneath them.

    When people treat you poorly, try not to take it personally. I can see it as a compliment and move on.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    There's a lot of truth in that. You can work yourself to death trying to please someone that will never be happy or care about you. I can say from my experience on a Christian forum (and in life in general), no matter what I did to please some people or how perfect I was, there were those that especially didn't like me for that very reason. Some won't look beyond superficial things to find a common ground; they just want you beneath them.
    yes, I've had that experience and had to learn that same lesson. It can happen in any community of any sort, but I think those groups with more stringent rulesets / a reason to constrain behavior or adhere to a certain image encourage that mentality of criticism. Sometimes people can be operating in that capacity too not out of helpful motives but because it reassures them personally in some way.

    At some point it's like you said, you just realize that you're investing a lot of energy to maintain an image you can't maintain and maybe don't even need to. Also, those kinds of people typically will never be happy with your efforts. And ultimately you might not even have a real relationship with them; real people usually have warts and we learn to accept and value each other even if we're not perfect.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    At some point it's like you said, you just realize that you're investing a lot of energy to maintain an image you can't maintain and maybe don't even need to. Also, those kinds of people typically will never be happy with your efforts. And ultimately you might not even have a real relationship with them; real people usually have warts and we learn to accept and value each other even if we're not perfect.
    Weirdly enough, I've had the same experience among left-wing groups. It doesn't necessarily have to be religious, any belief system can be that way.

    I think I'm pretty good at recognizing that mentality when I see it. If multiple people are particularly insistent on you changing your opinion on an extremely small difference, and kind of won't leave you alone about it, that's evidence that this kind of dynamic is at play. If nobody can explain exactly what it is that you're doing wrong, but you're still doing something wrong anyway, that's probably means that there is some kind of unhealthy group dynamic at play. If you keep on trying to meet expectations, and they keep on changing them on you, while never doing what they promised you they would do, that's a hostile environment.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78
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  9. #19
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Of course I am partisan.

    I love the true self because it is alive, and I hate the false self because it is phoney and a dead thing.

    I love the true self because it is independent, and I hate the false self because it is dependent on how it is seen.

    I love the true self because it dances, and I hate the false self because it is pedestrian.

    I love the true self because it is courageous, and I hate the false self because it is cowardly.

    I love the true self because it is imaginative, and I hate the false self because conformist.

    The false self loves social control while the true self loves liberation.
    Sounds like a watered-down essay from Ralph Waldo Emerson.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #20
    Member Evastover's Avatar
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    Blarghf, so much purple

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