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  1. #31
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    Misunderstanding/intolerance often stems from overconfidence in one's own convictions and opinions of other people and things.

    When people don't understand me, I try to learn more about the other person. One of two things happen.

    1. They talk about themselves, they ask me about myself or I offer something about myself, we go back and forth.

    2. They talk about themselves, I talk about myself, they talk about themselves some more and reveal a bloated ego, in which case I put on a grin and leave.

    If someone just doesn't understand, then whatever. Bummer how life works out sometimes.
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Snail's Avatar
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    I hate it when my introversion is mistaken for other qualities that are considered flaws. People frequently make false assumptions about me, like that I am unfriendly, that I have low self-esteem, that I don't know how to have fun, or that I need to be pulled kicking and screaming out of my shell for my own benefit. One otherwise intelligent extaverted friend of mine tried to argue with me about introversion being wrong because he equated it with self-centeredness, even though he acknowledges that I am sometimes selfless to a fault.

    I was sitting at a bar, minding my own business, having a drink to relax, and this guy came up to me, all loud and obnoxious, prying and probing, asking embarrassing personal quesions, leaning in too close, touching me. He wasn't drunk. He had only been drinking soda, and his breath did not smell like alcohol. He was just naturally bold. When I tried to back away and politely told him I needed some space, he would not respect my boundaries. He just couldn't understand why I wasn't as social as he was.

    Him: "Come on, honey, just loosen up a bit. I'm not going to hurt you. You need to come out of your shell and have some fun. You're just sitting here by yourself when you could be having a good time."

    Me: "I'm perfectly content. My idea of a good time is different from yours. I just want to relax right now."

    Him: "Yeah, but you don't have to be so quiet. What did your daddy do for a living? Where are you from? What do you do for fun?"

    Me: "I'm not willing to discuss the personal details of my life, but I guess I can discuss my hobbies if you really want me to. I'm a musician. I do art. I like to read. What do you do?"

    Him: "I'm a chauvinist."

    Me: "I didn't know that was a hobby. Anyhow, that's a coincidence, because I'm a feminist. We're supposed to be mortal enemies."

    He laughs.

    Him: "It's not that I hate women or anything. I just don't think they should act like men."

    Me: "I just act like me, no matter what associations my actions have for others. How do you feel about that?"

    He ignores my question, which is only fair, since I have been ignoring some of his.

    Him: "You said you like to read. What was the last book you read?"

    Me: "It was about psychology and understanding human differences."

    Him: "I don't buy into psychology."

    Me: "For the most part, neither do I. This is something I am using to increase my capacity for empathy."

    He leans in and puts his hand on my arm. I back away, pulling it out of reach, and turn slightly. I will not make eye contact. I don't want this man in my personal space. Eye contact is too intimate, and I already feel invaded.

    Him: "Why are you backing away from me? I'm harmless, really!"

    Me: "I'm not afraid of you. I'm just a private person and I need some space."

    Him: "Did someone hurt you? Is that why you're cringing when I get close? I'm not going to hit you."

    He leans up so close that I can feel his breath, then presses my wrist against the bar, cupping it in his hand. He is intent on proving something, because he thinks that my need for space is related to a fear of future violence. He doesn't understand that it is my reaction to already feeling violated by his proximity. He then puts his other arm around my shoulder. I duck out from under it and scoot my stool back further.

    Him: "What?! I won't hurt you! You don't have to shy away!"

    Me: "I know. I don't expect you to hurt me. I just don't like being touched by strangers."

    Him: "Okay, then tell me about yourself and we won't be strangers. What town are you originally from?"

    Me: "I'm not comfortable sharing my personal information with you. Sorry."

    Him: " I keep telling you I'm harmless! Why can't you just lighten up a bit?"

    He seems frustrated by my discomfort, but everything he does to try to pull me out of it only makes me retreat further. I am not an extravert, and not only is he extremely, militantly extraverted, but he is also pushy and socially inappropriate. I have plenty of extraverted friends who don't try to coerce me to be like them. I know that people can accept and acknowledge differences. Not all are willing, and not all would understand even if someone tried to explain.

  3. #33
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    The the OP, I don't disagree with you at all. It's annoying when you do your job and do it well, and others who aren't even management or better than you nitpick and want you to be like them. I've worked with some freaking annoying people, so I understand that frustration.

    HOWEVER -- your post did remind me of other frustrations I've had and I wanted to counter the kernel of the idea of 'personality' in the workplace. So kinda a tangent.

    Here I go!

    ----------

    Hmm, well there's personality difference that's 'immutable' meaning it cannot me 'wrong' and then there's context.

    If you used personality as a hard and fast rule and justification for why you are or are not doing something and you did not have to change for anyone or anything else, the world wouldn't have gotten as far as it has. And there'd really be no way for 'jobs' as they do now to exist, since you would never have to fulfill the responsibilities and expectations given you.

    There's a lot of flex and compromise involved when it comes to personality type and dealing with others and hard work to be successful.

    I remember my more introverted and shy real estate classmates (the majority of the class) complaining about how they were NOT going to 'farm' for business (knock on doors, cold call, etc.) and how putting your name and face on something like a grocery store shopping cart or magazine insert was embarassing and they could never give out business cards at parties.

    I was totally baffled. "How exactly will you find clients?" I asked. The usual answer was 'through friends' (btw, this is the kiss of death for both their careers and for the family members who are most likely going to get a crappy job done)

    People complained constantly about how they didnt' want to do the job because it didn't fit their 'personality' and yet most still had visions of making 'easy money'. Finally I told one woman, "That's [the outgoing, shameless self-promoter] the kind of personality that this business is about." And she got insulted and said, "Well not everyone has that personality" And I remember getting pissed off and thinking, "Exactly you greedy dumbass." (pardon my french)

    I totally did NOT understand why she was getting pissy over a very obvious and blatant fact that was hammered into us in all our qualifying classes in almost every class by all our teachers. You MUST cold call and introduce yourself to strangers, you MUST knock on doors and introduce yourself to neighbors and find business, etc. if you actually want a successful career in real estate. It's called hard work. And if you aren't willing to do the work, you will most likely quit like LOTS of real estate agents do.

    Why were these people wasting their time trying to get a job that they knew from the get go they did NOT want to do? What was the point of never doing their job properly or serving their client and then backing it up with, "That's just my personality". WTF. To me that's just so insane it boggles my mind and it's just whining to me, "I suck at this job and refuse to do the work because my personality is too good for it, but I still want to be as successful and wealthy as people who actually do all the requirements of the job and I'm going to talk mad shit about how superior my personality is because my preferences are better than theirs."

    I think for me, 'that's just my personality' goes as far as to recognize what environments and positions are not right for me. And so I avoid them. Or else I rise to task and try to stretch myself to succeed. Or otherwise find ways to get the job done. To the OP, yeah, if you don't feel like smiling wide or going, "Gosh, thanks SO MUCH for the extra work!" that's totally fine. It honestly may hurt you in the long run depending on your office and industry, but enthusiasm isn't a 'job task'. Likewise for me, sometimes I just want to punch in, do the job, and leave. But I will still do the job.

    But, I don't fall back on "I'm not going to do my job because that's just my personality and then I'm going to get self-righteous when you actually want me to do my job that I get paid for." WTH, I'm a freakin' "P" and I know that's just laziness and a bad attitude.

    People do not owe you anything, least of all a regular paycheck or fat commission. You have to earn it. And if you don't want to do the work because that's your "personality", that's totally fine. But don't complain about it later like you deserve a prize for not trying. Especially if you aren't living on the poverty line and forced to work in whatever job you can get. If you have the luxury of 'choice' (which is always proscribed) then choose wisely and suck it up.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #34
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Wow, Snail, I got a shiver reading that. That guy doesn't read as harmless, to me. He's still trying to force himself on you, though you've clearly demonstrated you don't like him, and now he feels like he has something to prove. Yikes.

    CzeCze, I think you maybe misreading your introverted classmates a little bit. I totally agree that real estate and sales are not good jobs for introverts, and that probably lots of them were just in it to make a buttload of money. But as far as the techniques? I don't think it's fair to assume that they think they're too good for that kind of thing. Most of us are horrified and anxiety-ridden at the idea of having to cold call a bunch of strangers and try to sell them something that they haven't expressed interest in first. It's hard enough talking to a bunch of strangers at all, let alone trying to sell yourself to them. And most introverts don't like to call attention to themselves, and would hate to see a giant billboard with their face plastered on it or on a magazine or park bench or something. Why must that personality difference = too snobby or too lazy to do the work? It just seems like a bad match of personality and job, to me.

  5. #35
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Tallulah, you're right that just because you don't want to do something that doesn't mean you think you're 'too good ' to do it. So to contextualize, in the same conversations some students would make comments like, "God, that's so tacky" or "Who does that???" and make faces or with their tone make it clear they didn't think well of the agents who put their face on shopping carts or handed out cards. At least that's how I interpreted it. I should explain myself better about the lazy/snobby comments, but right now my brain is fried. I will contextualize more later!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  6. #36
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    In answer to the OP, I think I'm finally getting the hang of it a little. This happened in the past week where I work. I'd been getting frustrated with the ESTJ in my team for a while - she's very loud and dominant and very J (strong Te).

    I think I just kept reiterating the things I'm good at and the things I really struggle with (which happens to be the stuff she's good at). I didn't talk about personality differences - just our respective strengths and weaknesses. I had to be more E with her for a while than I'm comfortable with, and talk through things over and over. It worked! To the point where she bought me a small gift as a thank you for working well with her on a particular task (and reducing her stress) and she keeps telling people how we worked together and that she wants them to do that too, lol.

    The really good part of this is that I can now get through to her about how other people in our team work. She was complaining to me about one of the guys being way too quiet when she asks him stuff (the guy is a more extreme introvert than me). I told her he's an introvert like me, but more extreme, and what sometimes works for me is to be given thinking time. ie maybe she could ask him a question, let him think about it and then go back to him. Not sure how that's going to work out, but she said she'll try it.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    I realize that some jobs are just not a good fit for introverts. I have tried jobs where I had to sell something and have been horrible at them and really hated them. At the time I was completely ignorant of the whole getting a job to match your personality concept.

    Right now I have a decent office job where I don't have to sell anything. Actually my office awards grants to people, so really they are selling to us, but they "sell" by coming up with a well researched, well thought out written grant proposal so it is pretty low key.

    I think the office environment is fairly neutral with regard to introversion/extroversion in that either type can do it well. I still interact with my co-workers and with some of our program participants and various people asking for information about the grant program.

    I am polite and friendly at work and that is really enough for most people there. I am being a little more outgoing than I would normally be so I won't be percieved as rude or unfriendly. Maybe I approach something closer to an ambivert, but still on the introvert side. I understand that in some jobs such as marketing or sales being very extroverted might be a plus, but I don't think that is the case here.

    By the way, the specific task I was asked to be enthusiastic about was mailing a big batch of paper work. I can't see how being enthusiastic or not would have made a difference in how well it was done.

    Ilah

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilah View Post
    By the way, the specific task I was asked to be enthusiastic about was mailing a big batch of paper work. I can't see how being enthusiastic or not would have made a difference in how well it was done.

    Ilah
    Yes, this was what I got from your OP, that it wasn't that you weren't actually doing the work and doing it adequately, it was that the co-worker felt you weren't suitably emotionally charged up about it.

    Gosh, even when I am excited about something, often some people still accuse me of not caring. I just don't have good advice to give on either, just except to say I suppose one has to come to peace with the fact that there's always going to be someone unhappy with the way one is and there's nothing that can be done to take that sort of conflict away.

  9. #39
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    My latest quote about brain theory comes from a running magazine, "Brains resist change".
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #40
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    misunderstandings are definitely frustrating, but man if i find it annoying as an ENFP a lot of you INTJ's and such must have a horrible time with those people. i don't know what advice to give. the best i guess would be some form of MBTI explanation. that cannot be a pleasant thought to a lot of people though, so i don't know o.0

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