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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    WOW that is crazy about the tissue and nerves and remapping! I never knew...

    We are leaning about these concepts in my curriculum but I never thought to apply it to gender reassignment surgery.
    Yes, if you have a competent surgeon, they preserve as many nerve pathways as possible, so everything's sensate. This wasn't nearly the case 50 years ago or in underdeveloped countries, so that had contributed to some of the outcome dissatisfaction early on.

    Basically, your brain thinks a certain feeling still occurs at the "old spot" but now it's just somewhere else, so you start to recognize where the feeling actually is, physically. It's the same process as learning your body the first time, you're just more self-aware of the process since you're typically a lot older.
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  2. #22
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, if you have a competent surgeon, they preserve as many nerve pathways as possible, so everything's sensate. This wasn't nearly the case 50 years ago or in underdeveloped countries, so that had contributed to some of the outcome dissatisfaction early on.

    Basically, your brain thinks a certain feeling still occurs at the "old spot" but now it's just somewhere else, so you start to recognize where the feeling actually is, physically. It's the same process as learning your body the first time, you're just more self-aware of the process since you're typically a lot older.
    Neuroplasticity is so mind-boggling.

    We had talked about it more in the context of people who had experienced stroke. Same idea but opposite, kind of, because the sudden change occurs at the level of the brain, rather than in the body. The areas of the brain which are mapped to a particular area of the body (either in terms of sensation/input or muscle output, often both) are wiped out. I am kind of simplifying exactly how the process works, but, depending on the extent of damage, the brain will remap new neurons to send signals to those muscle cells which had previously been innervated by the damaged brain area.

    The neuroplastic changes occur best when the nervous system determines a need for it, so it's based on use and demand and other factors.
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  3. #23
    literally your mother PocketFullOf's Avatar
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    lol this strikes me as some cathy brennan level shit.


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  4. #24
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketFullOf View Post
    lol this strikes me as some cathy brennan level shit.
    Nah her level of insanity is off in the stratosphere. Essentially no one can like her as she pulls radicalism from so many different areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Yes, I thought of this as well. I don't suppose someone has that statistic.



    I hope you got permission first.



    I'm not familiar with New American. When I read articles, I'm primarily looking for statistics, facts, and anecdotal evidence. My interest in this topic is in the success of the operation. Do people who've undergone gender reassignment surgery lead happier, more fulfilling lives?



    This is great news. I assume that the change is lasting or at least lasting more than a year or two? Also, thanks for sharing.

    I don't know if you have ever been close to a Trans person, or even a fully homosexual individual who seemingly always knew they were gay, but I swear it's like they are the opposite gender, something to do with hormones in the womb, or possibly something in puberty, my ESXP and I were talking about this last night, our mutual ESFJ acquaintence is seriously almost like a bitchy girl...i think personality type has something to do with that as well, but he was one of those who always knew he was gay. I only have one T friend who I have been truly close to for years, I knew her when she went along with being a he, and it's like....it was not shocking. It was like. ..it was always there.

    I think some people really don't feel like the gender they were assigned, and it's biological even. I think in these cases surgery would be a satisfying thing for them, but with someone just questioning their sexuality, probably not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Not to mention there are a lot of health problems associated with playing with the hormone balance in the body. Once you get it right you're okay, but it could take years and events can change that balance. Working the body against its natural inclinations puts strain all over.

    It's a very, very small portion of the population... Truly, studies would have to put together data from several countries all at once to create data large enough. I would also be interested in suicide rates of non-surgery or pre-surgery transgenders... and the portion of those that committed suicide that also had depression.. Because I think depression might be a bigger contributor than the actual transgender issue itself.
    And what if it isn't the surgery itself, but the societal factors around them leading to the depression. Not their own assessment of themselves, but the way they are accepted by their peer group, strangers, family and lovers. Social bullying can push an insecure person over the edge.
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    I can understand the skepticism of the OP, I've had it too: For most of my life what was given to me as the liberal and enlightened world view was to avoid gender biases and treat gender as just a matter of sex, and then you are told to avoid thinking of gender in terms of sex and redefine it according the sort of characteristics that seem to fit entirely in the category of gender biases.
    To call this confusing is an understatement: You grow up getting told that both girls and boys can play with dolls and trucks, and then comes a girl telling you to call her a boy because she likes playing with trucks. I can't deny that part of my brain is bewildered.

    To be perfectly honest, I still don't understand it, and since this is beyond the realm of my individual experience, I might never be able to get it. But I also accept that just because I can't make sense of something, doesn't mean it isn't real. The distress and emotional dissonance you hear from those who feel they have the wrong body is real, something that leads to a 40% chance of suicide attempt is real, and it's a problem. Something that can help and dramatically decrease suicide attempt rates? That's real, and it's a solution. It is unfortunate for the transgender in the article, but statistics will beat anecdotal evidence any time.
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  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketFullOf View Post
    lol this strikes me as some cathy brennan level shit.
    Oh f*k... you had to bring Brennan into this? Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Nah her level of insanity is off in the stratosphere. Essentially no one can like her as she pulls radicalism from so many different areas.
    Oh, good, you covered that one.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    I can understand the skepticism of the OP, I've had it too: For most of my life what was given to me as the liberal and enlightened world view was to avoid gender biases and treat gender as just a matter of sex, and then you are told to avoid thinking of gender in terms of sex and redefine it according the sort of characteristics that seem to fit entirely in the category of gender biases.
    To call this confusing is an understatement: You grow up getting told that both girls and boys can play with dolls and trucks, and then comes a girl telling you to call her a boy because she likes playing with trucks. I can't deny that part of my brain is bewildered.
    The politically correct view is that gender roles are evil. The problem isn't gender roles, though, it's forcing gender roles on people.

    To be perfectly honest, I still don't understand it, and since this is beyond the realm of my individual experience, I might never be able to get it.
    There are two kinds of understanding: viscerally getting it in the sense of being able to imagine yourself in their place, and intellectually understanding that it exists.

    My favorite color is blue. I also like red and black, and if I didn't like blue quite as much, either red or black might be my favorite color. I get people whose favorite color is red or black, because I can see why they'd like them so much. Yellow is my least favorite color. Yellow is ugly and gross looking. I don't like it. I don't get people who, for some strange reason, like yellow. But I do understand that they have an emotional reaction to yellow that's similar to how I emotionally react to blue.

    Someone in my immediate family is trans, and so I did the obvious thought-experiment: how would I react if I'd been born and raised as a girl? And basically, I wouldn't be much different, and I wouldn't be bothered by it. I'll never get trans people in a visceral, that-could-have-been-me kind of way, any more than I'll ever get people who like the color yellow. I don't think that's necessary, though. Understanding that they have the reactions that they do ought to be enough.
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  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And what if it isn't the surgery itself, but the societal factors around them leading to the depression. Not their own assessment of themselves, but the way they are accepted by their peer group, strangers, family and lovers. Social bullying can push an insecure person over the edge.
    Exactly what I was trying to say. I think that by the time they even get to the point of being screened enough for surgery, they've already had to battle everyone around them, and somehow survive all that constant pressure and alienation without depression creeping in. It's a hard, very real struggle. Either you don't feel right, or no one around your feels right, and they blame you for it.
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