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  1. #11
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    At best, IQ only measures a small range of the many forms intelligence can take. I've never yet seen an IQ question that read "It's late and you really need to buy something, but the cashier would rather close up and go home. What do you say to get them to serve you instead?"
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  2. #12
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    At best, IQ only measures a small range of the many forms intelligence can take. I've never yet seen an IQ question that read "It's late and you really need to buy something, but the cashier would rather close up and go home. What do you say to get them to serve you instead?"
    Hmmm I'd ask if they had anything ready right away, but more than likely a cone of soft serve since all that requires it taking a cone and pulling the lever. unless they're in the middle of cleaning the machine. then I'd probably see if there was like a bag of chips or something, but if I was gonna do that why wouldn't i just go to the mini mart? (I'm assuming fast food here) so yeah the first thing.

    Honestly realistically I would just go some place else.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #13
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    Hmmm I'd ask if they had anything ready right away, but more than likely a cone of soft serve since all that requires it taking a cone and pulling the lever. unless they're in the middle of cleaning the machine. then I'd probably see if there was like a bag of chips or something, but if I was gonna do that why wouldn't i just go to the mini mart? (I'm assuming fast food here) so yeah the first thing.
    Ah, diplomacy. A little of what you want for a little of what I want. The less of an impossion your request, the more likely it is to be acted upon.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  4. #14
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Ah, diplomacy. A little of what you want for a little of what I want. The less of an impossion your request, the more likely it is to be acted upon.
    yeah plus I have a self imposed rule to try not to be a dick unnecessarily, it works quite well.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inis Mona View Post
    Do you think, that smartness necessarily correlate with high IQ score? Or is it more just a combination of curiosity, openness, social skills and learned knowledge? Do you think that people who are curious, or more open minded than average necessarily have to have high IQ?
    No. Smart is a combination of effort and IQ. If IQ is low you can make up for it with effort. I know someone who has a professionally tested IQ in the 70s, but I wouldnt call him stupid at all. He is fairly smart, it just takes him longer to figure things out. I have also seen people who have extremely high IQs that I wouldnt think are smart because they dont know how to really use it except on useless crap. IQ more determines how fast you can pick up and learn things, but it still requires effort and direction to make you smart.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    At best, IQ only measures a small range of the many forms intelligence can take. I've never yet seen an IQ question that read "It's late and you really need to buy something, but the cashier would rather close up and go home. What do you say to get them to serve you instead?"
    thats to open ended and dependent on the person, mood etc. and has alot of different right/wrong answers that also get into degrees of right/wrong. I am sure every personality type would respond differently based on what they value. Its like these IQ tests where they show you peoples faces, they screw me up big time because the faces shift right in front of my eyes, like those pictures where depending on where/what you focus on things it creates a different picture. People and faces do that to me. Like I can see multiple sides of things. Really screws me up on those tests and I dont know what they are looking for.

    What I mean degrees of right wrong. you can be nice or you can bitch and threaten. Both get you what you want, values dictate degree of right wrong to the point where even if the person accomplished it others will still deny due to path the person went..
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I'm not even certain there are various levels of intelligence anyway, just people with different focuses. The fact that modern society values only certain uses for intelligence does not mean that there is a standard for it. Everyone has within them the capacity for reasoning, creativity, literacy, etc. whether or not they choose to develop it is another matter.
    There are definitely varying levels of intelligence, and it's easy to tell. However, IQ can be too narrow a measure of such intelligence, and can be made more important than it really is, misinterpreted, or misused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    No. Smart is a combination of effort and IQ. If IQ is low you can make up for it with effort. I know someone who has a professionally tested IQ in the 70s, but I wouldnt call him stupid at all. He is fairly smart, it just takes him longer to figure things out. I have also seen people who have extremely high IQs that I wouldnt think are smart because they dont know how to really use it except on useless crap. IQ more determines how fast you can pick up and learn things, but it still requires effort and direction to make you smart.
    I agree that effort is a part of learning and success in life, but I think this is being repeated to the point that the significance of effort is being overestimated. The problem with intelligence being wasted is usually from no effort whatsoever (did they even waste their intelligence, or did they not do with it what someone else thought appropriate, therefore leading them to being accused of wasting their life) or from being screwed due to others feeling inferior (getting fired or pushed out of a job because you're "too good" and are thus a threat), and infinite effort, from what I've seen, isn't enough to overcome the lack of it.

    I suppose there are things some learn slower than others, or pick up more easily, but past that if the intelligence in that area is lacking, then after a lot of effort there isn't really much improvement, just someone who has put in a lot of effort. Also, I notice that people who succeed due to effort and perseverance usually cheated, benefit from those better than them getting screwed over, and succeed not by getting better but by others seeing them as putting a lot of effort into what they are doing (someone tried really hard, so they should be awarded for doing that). Also, when they stick with something for a long time, eventually, everyone is gone and they are the only ones left. They may not have improved that much, they've just succeeded by default.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    There are definitely varying levels of intelligence, and it's easy to tell. However, IQ can be too narrow a measure of such intelligence, and can be made more important than it really is, misinterpreted, or misused.


    I agree that effort is a part of learning and success in life, but I think this is being repeated to the point that the significance of effort is being overestimated. The problem with intelligence being wasted is usually from no effort whatsoever (did they even waste their intelligence, or did they not do with it what someone else thought appropriate, therefore leading them to being accused of wasting their life) or from being screwed due to others feeling inferior (getting fired or pushed out of a job because you're "too good" and are thus a threat), and infinite effort, from what I've seen, isn't enough to overcome the lack of it.

    I suppose there are things some learn slower than others, or pick up more easily, but past that if the intelligence in that area is lacking, then after a lot of effort there isn't really much improvement, just someone who has put in a lot of effort. Also, I notice that people who succeed due to effort and perseverance usually cheated, benefit from those better than them getting screwed over, and succeed not by getting better but by others seeing them as putting a lot of effort into what they are doing (someone tried really hard, so they should be awarded for doing that). Also, when they stick with something for a long time, eventually, everyone is gone and they are the only ones left. They may not have improved that much, they've just succeeded by default.
    Effort can be things like school, etc. The issue with school is that they teach a certain way and not always toward how the child learns. So lets take old school style like an aprentice where its one on one and the master can better gear the teaching toward the person.

    Someone with a high IQ does have an advantage, but I wouldnt go so far as to say someone with a really low IQ cannot be as smart and in some instances smarter then someone with a higher IQ.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Effort can be things like school, etc. The issue with school is that they teach a certain way and not always toward how the child learns. So lets take old school style like an aprentice where its one on one and the master can better gear the teaching toward the person.

    Someone with a high IQ does have an advantage, but I wouldnt go so far as to say someone with a really low IQ cannot be as smart and in some instances smarter then someone with a higher IQ.
    Someone that can't dance probably won't be better at dancing than someone with natural dancing ability, even with infinite effort. However, if someone who can naturally dance does nothing with their ability, then they'll go nowhere and if the one that can't dance works the system, puts in the effort, looks the part, and doesn't give up, then eventually they may go somewhere in the field of dancing. It's not that the person that can't dance is better, it's that there was more to succeeding than knowing how to dance and they leaned on those other things. The same can be said if someone had naturally dancing ability and wasted none of it, but then went nowhere. They had the ability, but lacked opportunity, got pushed out for being too good, or weren't as good at dealing with BS.

    What do you mean by smart? I think anyone can be well-read and experienced at what they are doing, thus making them not stupid at it and seemingly better than someone with a stronger natural ability that hasn't been at it very long, but I don't think someone with a lower IQ can necessarily be smarter than someone with a higher IQ (in that form of intelligence).

  10. #20
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    I think if someone does very well on an IQ test, they probably have a decent amount of innate mental ability, but that doesn't necessarily mean they actually use it. I also think it's possible to be very intuitive, wise, and complex-minded, but not have the surface mental skills/sharpness necessary (strong working memory, processing speed, etc.) to get a very high IQ score, especially on the performance/non-verbal section. I've read that non-verbal IQ (which supposedly correlates with fluid intelligence) decreases after a certain age (I think mid-twenties), but I definitely wouldn't say that people get less intelligent as they get older.

    Overall, I think depth of understanding and wisdom are what really matters, and IQ (which is probably an iffy way to test aptitude anyway) doesn't determine whether or not someone possesses those things. Obviously, some people just have a lower intellectual ceiling and, even with hard work, couldn't obtain the same level of understanding that a hard-working genius is capable of. However, a person with moderate aptitude but a lot of curiosity and determination is probably going to obtain a higher level of understanding in something than a naturally sharper person who has no interest in learning about it.

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