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Thread: Freud and Jung

  1. #51
    heart on fire
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    You feel that civilization always trumps native populations in morality and freedom and equality for its members?

    It was civilzation that brought in the priestcraft and control over people through such measures.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    This is a simplex view. There are many living within western civilization who don't enjoy true freedom and/or equality.
    Sure, but we are working toward it.

    Already we have made great strides.

    In 1833 The House of Commons abolished the institution of slavery for the first time in human history.

    And in the 20th Century women achieved their emancipation.

    And in 1948 we passed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    And in the last few decades the laws against child sexual abuse have been enforced in the West.

    Modern economics have for the first time in human history abolished scarcity in the West.

    Liberal Democracy has succeeded in limiting power - see your Constitution and mine.

    And science is a roaring success.

    The Enlightenment has come a long way and we have a long way to go particularly in some non-Western countries.

    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    - your own Robert Frost.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In 1833 The House of Commons abolished the institution of slavery for the first time in human history.
    1. Frost is a Romantic! So why are you spreading such evil poison here?

    2. Slavery is being re-created with the privately-owned prison industrial system.

    That's just one example.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Oy.

    Most of Victor's argument is based on a language and a logic system all his own, which has not been thoroughly explained to anyone else, and may never be.

    I don't know about you heart, but I was just taking this as an exercise. Now that I see where this problem goes, I think I'm done with this. If you would like to continue with him, just keep in mind how impenetrable he is.
    You know, I like to read books that I don't quite understand.

    It's as though there is a part of my brain that is tickled by new ideas.

    And when I play tennis, I like to play with someone who is slightly better than me.

    Perhaps you could think of me as a book you don't quite understand.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    1. Frost is a Romantic! So why are you spreading such evil poison here?
    It's true, the first line I quoted is Romantic -

    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,"

    But he doesn't allow himself to fall into the sleep of Romanticism, he remains awake to keep his promises -

    "But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    He remains awake to keep the promise of the Enlightenment.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's true, the first line I quoted is Romantic -

    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,"

    But he doesn't allow himself to fall into the sleep of Romanticism, he remains awake to keep his promises -

    "But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep."

    He remains awake to keep the promise of the Enlightenment.
    Frost believed that nature and its cycles are so ingrained in humans that we'll never rise above it and that's about as anti-Enlightenment (and anti-transcentalism) as a person can get and I don't care what you "feel" he is saying, you are spreading Romanticism when you quote him and according to your own philosophy that makes you a helper to the barbaric agenda.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And religion and romanticism are the enemies of the Enlightenment.
    BlueWing?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    2. Slavery is being re-created with the privately-owned prison industrial system.
    I am referring to the Institution of Slavey that was abolished for the first time by the House of Commons.

    Here we have laws against slavey and recently we have had a successful prosecution for slavery.

    So although we don't have the Institution of Slavey, slavery still occurs and we prosecute it vigourously.

    And yes slavey still exists in Gulags and Work Camps and in trafficking sex slaves.

    I don't know of any Institutional Slavery even in the Sudan.

    After the House of Commons abolished the Institution of Slavery, the Royal Navy was sent out into the Atlantic with orders to sink any of your ships trafficking in slavery. And you were sensible enough to stop.

    Perhaps you remembered we burnt the White House to the ground in our last encounter and thought we might do the same with your ships.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Frost believed that nature and its cycles are so ingrained in humans that we'll never rise above it and that's about as anti-Enlightenment (and anti-transcentalism) as a person can get and I don't care what you "feel" he is saying, you are spreading Romanticism when you quote him and according to your own philosophy that makes you a helper to the barbaric agenda.
    It's true I am deeply affected by the Romantic Movement.

    I was so affected I became a hippy.

    You remember, there were three types of hippie - the political hippy, the drug hippy and the mystical hippy. I was a mystical hippy.

    But I was awakened from my sleep of Romanticism by the destruction of the Twin Towers.

    And I struggle to stay awake to keep the promises of the Enlightenment.

    And I am in excellent company, along with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is visiting us at the moment.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Here we have laws against slavey and recently we have had a successful prosecution for slavery.

    So although we don't have the Institution of Slavey, slavery still occurs and we prosecute it vigourously.
    Read about the Prison privatization in your own country. Use both your reason and your feeling, see what's in the works there.

    Oh yeah, I forgot, the bad guy always wears a black hat and the good guy a white one...


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Perhaps you remembered we burnt the White House to the ground in our last encounter and thought we might do the same with your ships.

    1. The British burned the first White House, not the Australians. Have you changed your country then?

    2. As you have said before a person is not seperable from the mass collective of their country, are you speaking for Australia and declaring war on the USA?

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