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Thread: Freud and Jung

  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    What was that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Enlightenment is very important - you might even say of overriding importance in relations between your country and mine.

    For your country was founded by Religious Dissidents while mine was founded by the Scottish and English Enlightenment. Deported criminals.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That's an odd statement, in so far as I can't tell what it's purpose or relevance is. The only relevant thing I can pick out of that is the comment about Jung, and I don't think he was exactly against the whole enlightenment.
    Outside of the West, Islam did not go through the Enlightenment and remains opposed to it all.

    Within the West, Religion and Romanticism opposed the Enlightenment.

    Within the West, about 1900, Religion declared the Enlightenment to be a Heresy.

    And the very point of the Romantic Movement was to oppose the Enlightenment.

    Freud was in the tradition of the Enlightenment.

    While Jung was in the tradition of the New Age Religion, as is MBTI.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And what about it being a synonym with reason? This seems to be the making of some kind of pseudo-logical equation.
    Reason is the leitmotif of the Enlightenment.

    Why, the French Enlightenment installed the Goddess of Reason in Notre Dame Cathedral in the very heart of Paris.

  4. #24
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Outside of the West, Islam did not go through the Enlightenment and remains opposed to it all.

    Within the West, Religion and Romanticism opposed the Enlightenment.

    Within the West, about 1900, Religion declared the Enlightenment to be a Heresy.

    And the very point of the Romantic Movement was to oppose the Enlightenment.

    Freud was in the tradition of the Enlightenment.

    While Jung was in the tradition of the New Age Religion, as is MBTI.
    Okay... Of all my possible targets, I think I'm just going to re-state that the enlightenment wasn't all good and the counter-enlightenment wasn't all bad.
    And the enlightenment certainly isn't responsible for everything we value today... in fact, many believe that the counter-enlightenment beliefs were important to giving us what we value. The culture of the enlightenment was very elitist, and most non-elitist or anti-elitist concepts we value are owed more to counter-enlightenment thinking. Furthmore, any claims of dominion over reason by the "enlightened" is certainly folly. Essentially none of the enlightenment's critics, save perhaps the dogmatically religious, were skeptical of the value of reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Reason is the leitmotif of the Enlightenment.

    Why, the French Enlightenment installed the Goddess of Reason in Notre Dame Cathedral in the very heart of Paris.
    Doesn't it seem terribly ironic to you that the enlightened thinkers would erect a statue of a goddess to represent reason?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Doesn't it seem terribly ironic to you that the enlightened thinkers would erect a statue of a goddess to represent reason?
    Of course, and it was deliciously ironic for the Enlightened who installed her in the very heart of the enemy.

    Irony was the very point of installing her in the heart of Religion, in Notre Dame Cathedral.

    I understand it was quite a carnival.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The culture of the enlightenment was very elitist, and most non-elitist or anti-elitist concepts we value are owed more to counter-enlightenment thinking.
    Quite the opposite.

    The Enlightenment gave us, "one vote, one value".

    And the Enlightenment gave us the secret ballot, called the Australian ballot.

    The Enlightenment gave us votes for women, first achieved in Australia.

    And the Enlightenment gave us the Bill of Rights.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And religion and romanticism are the enemies of the Enlightenment.
    The Enlightenment spawned the violence of the French Revolution. People reacted by going towards Romaniticism. There's no perfect pancea.


    Subconsciously you knew this already victor, so why did you start this thread?

    And yes, you've already said that you feel Austrailia had the perfect response to the Revolutionary Era. Good for you. You're not American. Woohoo. You've no further need for any personality development beynd that, that's your whole sense of self-worth, where you were born.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Doesn't it seem terribly ironic to you that the enlightened thinkers would erect a statue of a goddess to represent reason?
    The Statue of Liberty is a direct copy of the statue, the Goddess of Reason, that was installed in Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris, France.

    And the Statue of Liberty was a gift to you by the French Enlightenment.

    The name, Statue of Liberty, means freedom.

    And she is a direct, exact copy of the Goddess of Reason in France.

    So the one thing that represents you to the world embodies Reason and Freedom.

    And Reason and Freedom are the Enlightenment.

    So loyal Americans have an interest in defending the values of the Enlightenment along with loyal Australians whose very country was founded by the Scottish and English Enlightenment.

  9. #29
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    Reason never exists in this world without feeling because of the way humans are made. To ignore either is to court disaster, but people never learn, they always want to swing absolute in one direction or the other. There's value in both the Age of Reason and the Age of Romance and there are dangers in both as well. Better to strike a balance.

  10. #30
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Actually, my own mental dictionary divides it into Thinking and Feeling, while Reasoning is the word I assigned for rationale that uses both.

    I think Feeling is inate to Reasoning.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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